The Reddest of Red Herrings

by Don Boudreaux on April 15, 2006

in Immigration

Suppose that several proponents of lower taxes argued that one important reason — maybe the important reason — for cutting taxes is that lower taxes save paper.  "If we cut taxes, we’ll use up less paper in record keeping and tax filing.  What a boon such a saving would be to our economy!"

Persons opposed to cutting taxes would surely respond that this effect is so small as to be irrelevant.  Indeed, this effect might not even be real.  But the tax-cut advocates don’t give up: they keep focusing on the paper-saving that they argue will result from tax cuts.

Surely, if this paper-saving argument is the best one for cutting taxes, the case for cutting taxes would be very weak indeed.

…..

The above ridiculous scenario isn’t very far from the scenario playing out now in the immigration debate.  Many people on the pro-immigration side say that immigrants do jobs that Americans won’t do.  Those opposed to freer immigration then correctly respond that if the supply of workers to do these jobs falls (say, because immigration is restricted further), the wages paid to perform these jobs will rise and, thus, attract Americans into these jobs.  In fact, even if we totally prohibit any further immigration into America, Americans’ lawns will still be mowed, our garbage will still be collected, our homes will still be cleaned, and produce grown on American farms will still be harvested.

This claim that "immigrants do jobs that Americans won’t do" permits opponents of immigration to win easy battles by exposing the foolishness of such arguments.  And because so many people today seem to think that the main economic advantage of immigration is that it supplies people willing to do jobs that Americans won’t do, immigration opponents gain much more credibility than they deserve.

The "jobs Americans won’t do" issue is a neon-brilliant-scarlet red herring.

Comments    Share Share    Print Print    Email Email

  • Jeremiah

    By driving down wages, immigrants are freeing up capital that is used to create more jobs. While they are not doing jobs Americans won't do, they are doing jobs that wouldn't exist without immigration.

  • quadrupole

    By making it cheaper to substitute labor for capital, illegal immigrants are retarding productivity growth.


    That's basically the underlying effect. If you continue to provide artificially cheap labor, then you will not get the capital investment to raise the productivity enough to make those into jobs American's will do.


  • TGGP

    There is an excellent article at LewRockwell today on this:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/spence1.html</...>
    But speaking of taxes and paper, what does Don think of the proposal that the I.R.S do most American's taxes, then send them a simple form where they note whether or not what they did was correct? Some professor was talking about it on CNN last night. I have to say I'm a bit suspicious of giving more work to government agencies, but I don't like the government requiring Americans to do this work either.

  • Don Boudreaux

    In what way are immigrants -- whether they be here with the express permission of Uncle Sam or not -- "artificially cheap labor"? There's nothing "artificial" -- or undesirable -- about it.

  • Perhaps "artificially cheap labor" refers to a business being able to pay $5 an hour to an illegal alien who lives with 10 other families in a studio apartment in Maywood CA, and then that illegal alien sending his children to the LAUSD at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars per year.


    On a related note, click my name to see my discussion of the standard arguments that supporters of illegal immigration use: "they're just here to work", "you can't deport 12 (13,14,15,etc.) million people", etc. etc.

  • quadrupole

    Don, let me give some examples and then provide the general gist of things.


    Example 1: Employer A highers immigrant B on an H1B (6 year visa). Employer A also sponsors immigrant B for a green card, which immigrant B REALLY wants. Now if immigrant B changes jobs, they will loose there place in the green card line, and certainly will not get a green card before their H1B visa is up. As a result, Employer A can get away with not providing *any* salary increases to immigrant B, expecting 60-80 hour work weeks from immigrant B, and etc. Thus immigrant B is providing labor at well below the market clearing wage, because of the stupid constraints in immigration law. In other words, immigrant Bs wages are artificially low.


    Example B: Employer C hires illegal immigrant D to do day labor. He doesn't withhold taxes, or pay workmans comp, or pay or report fica or medicare taxes. He also knows if he has any trouble with immigrant C, he can just threaten to turn him into ICE. In short, employer C, has greatly reduced employment costs by virtue of hiring illegal immigrant D. He's reducing costs by acting illegally, but he's still reducing his costs. The result is that he is bearing an artificially reduced cost of labor. The artificial reduction is gained through illegal activity.


    Basically, the point is that *any* immigration scheme (legal or illegal) that lowers the cost of labor for immigrants to a level lower than domestic labor, whether by reducing worker mobility, or allowing employers to dodge expenses they would other wise have to pay for native labor, produces artificially lower labor costs.


    I'm all for immigration. Most of my coworkers are legal immigrants. But you have to have immigration in such a way that puts immigrants on an equal footing in the labor market with native labor, otherwise you don't get market clearing wages for that labor, and you thus get lower levels of capital investment.

  • save_the_rustbelt

    Illegals are taking over a large swath of the non-union construction business, and those are not "jobs Americans won't do."


    Illegals are not about to call the government when they are cheated out of overtime, and won't call OSHA or workers comp when injured on the job. Quite a cost savings to the contractors.


    Keep in mind working illegals are almost certainly committing criminal acts; trafficing in forged federal documents and federal income tax evasion.

  • I agree the "jawbs amurricans won't do" is weak, but not as weak as you make it out to be.


    First, if immigration were totally prohibited, some lawns would not be mowed, or mowed less frequently, fewer vegetables would be harvested, etc. Price increases, quantity consumed decreases.


    Second, since when is a red herring an automatic loser in political argumentation? Regardless of logical inconsistency the "jawbs amurricans won't do" argument appears at first glance to hold lots of truth, particularly where immigrants seemingly make up the entire grunt labor force (e.g., California central valley agriculture).


    (Personally I prefer the anti-bigot argument http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2006/03/28/backyar... for free migration, but I suppose that's beyond the pale for amurrican politics.)

  • Grzegorz

    How many illegal aliens are working to harvest produce that is subsidized? Don't we, the taxpayers, have to pay (subsidize) to keep in this produce in storage?


    How does one find the millions of illegal aliens in the country? Who will come forward to say they’ve been here two years; between two to five years, and over five years?


    I'd bet few if any of the illegal aliens come forward with this information. Those that do certainly will claim they've been here for five years. How does one prove someone has been in this country for 'X' amount of years when their identification is either bogus or non-existent?


    Legalizing illegal aliens is the easy out; is it no wonder that our politicians leap at such a solution?


    All the while the border remains open.


    Immigration is necessary; immigration without a sane policy in an insane world draws on our resources, increases the probability of security issues because of possible terrorist crossings, provides other countries a “dumping ground” for their undesirables, and in the long run immigrant assimilation becomes less and less probable.


  • quadrupole

    I have seen it alleged, that of the cost of produce you buy at the grocery store, 5% actually makes it's way back to the farmer. If this is true, then tripling the total costs of farmers would increase the cost of your domestically produced produce by 10%. Think about that when people talk about the increase in costs at the grocery. They are talking about an order 10% effect.

  • Mickey Klein

    There is nothing mystically important about capital growth. If more labor can do it more profitably than capital expansion then hiring is the economically sound answer.


    If you went out and made 20 percent of the population unemployed, then I'm sure you would see capital growth along with economic contraction.

  • quadrupole

    Mickey, there is something mystically important about productivity growth though. And capital growth leads to producitivity growth. I agree that one shouldn't invest capital when labor can do it more cheaply. But imagine for a moment that we passed a law capping the wages paid to people who's last name begin with H to $3/hour. Suddenly, there would be a large pool of cheap labor. Many places where it would have otherwise been cheaper to invest capital in increased productivity, it will suddenly be much cheaper to employ people who's name ends in H. This would be an artificial suppression of labor costs below market clearing rates. If below market rate labor is desireable, why not pass my law creating that low cost labor with people who's name end in H?


  • Donny

    I'm confused.

    Are we talking about labour below free-market rate, or labour below government imposed market rate?

  • JohnDewey

    Donny, I don't think it matters. Illegal immigrants in the U.S. generally make at least the government-imposed minimum wage of $5.25.


    Last year the Social Security Administration's chief actuary estimated that 3/4 of the nation's illegal immigrants are paying social security taxes. Through the use of someone else's identification, they work in jobs covered by the nation's minimum wage laws. These immigrants and their employers do pay taxes.


    Many other undocumented immigrants work on a cash basis. I've been told by an employer of such immigrants that the free market for illegal labor has pushed the wage above $5.25 per hour.


  • Mickey Klein

    Quadrouple,


    There wouldn't be a cheap pool of labor because people wouldn't work for three dollars an hour, instead, a black market would come up with higher wages. The trend of illegal immigration is one such rebellion by the market against government controls.


    Artificial labor implies that it is not demanded, that some central authority is forcing labor upon the market that it does not want. Far from the truth, immigrant labor is demanded by the economy at the quantity is comes in, and this is against the will of the government planning agencies.


    If there was labor here that would not be here because of demand, and no employers would be there to hire them, then there would be increased unemployment with immigration.


    Where is the gap? If laborers are being brought to America and their work is not profitable to firms, why is unemployment so low?

  • donny

    I can see why so many are concerned; there seems to be a near endless supply of american jobs for immigrants to steal.




    "How does one prove someone has been in this country for 'X' amount of years when their identification is either bogus or non-existent?"


    An affidivat from a doctor or other professional?





    "How many illegal aliens are working to harvest produce that is subsidized? Don't we, the taxpayers, have to pay (subsidize) to keep in this produce in storage?"


    Some of the subsidization probably finds it's way into lower food prices for those same taxpayers. Of course without subsidies, maybe there would be more farming jobs in other countries to make up any production gaps. Like maybe Mexico?

  • jimmy

    Don,


    I am confused. Are you saying that you are against immigration? Because if so, you are the first economist I have ever met who is against immigration. I am curious to hear about why you are against it rather than how the "jobs americans won't do" is a red herring.

  • like you mentioned yourself, having americans do those jobs will raise the cost of getting the garbage cleared, the lawns mowed and of course the taxi fares.

  • jimmy:


    Don is definitely not anti-immigration. His point is that "jobs Americans won't do" is such an easily demolished, economically illiterate argument that he would be much happier if pro-immigration people didn't try to make it. Making the argument hinders, rather than helps the pro-immigration cause.

  • John Dewey

    So what is the correct argument?


    Illegal immigrants represent 5% of the U.S. workforce. By filling the low-skilled jobs, they free up more skilled U.S. workers for more productive uses. The direct result is a higher GDP and a higher standard of living for both illegal immigrants and legal U.S. workers. The indirect result is an immigrant-driven increase in demand for U.S. goods and services, which should lead to increased capital investment and an even larger GDP.


    I'm not an economist, so help me out. I only had three economics courses at Wharton 25 years ago. Do I remember all this correctly?

  • Mr. Econotarian

    Regarding: "By making it cheaper to substitute labor for capital, illegal immigrants are retarding productivity growth."


    Illegal immigrants are mainly going into low-skill labor jobs that present significant challenges to capital subsitution.


    Until we develop robots that can take bones out of chicken, or robots that can paint your house, there is no capital substitution possible.


    As a former AI researcher, I'll have to say these are still years away. And when the robots come, they will undercut the immigrants anyway.


    On the other hand, these immigrants are doing work today that might have otherwise been done with skilled-labor's leisure time (like painting your house, doing yardwork, etc.) This expands the available time to skilled laborers, allowing them to either 1) do side jobs, consulting, etc. or 2) sit around and think about building robots...


    The U.S. is now creating about 200,000 new jobs per month. I suspect that a good number (but certainly not most or all) of these are jobs that could only exist with low-skill labor that doesn't need to speak English.

  • lindaseebach

    Actually, seasonality matters almost more than wages. We had some people in for an editorial board meeting to talk to us about renewing the law for seasonal workers. That's landscaping/nursery, of course, but in Colorado it's also ski season. These are legal jobs, at respectable wages -- employers have to offer adequate wages, or they don't qualify for the H2-B visa program -- they run four to eight or nine months a year, depending on where you are. Landscaping jobs in Colorado are roughly April through September. Many of the workers are Mexican; they come back to the same employer year after year, if they can get a visa; they recruit their family members. Advertise those jobs, at those wages, in June, July and August, and you get hordes of willing Americans, college students. Advertise them starting in April and May, and nobody applies. And, if you're in the landscaping business and your season runs through October (as it does in many places) how can you afford to hire a college student who will, you can be certain, quit at the end of August, by which time you can't hire a foreign worker on a seasonal visa?

  • quadrupole

    John Dewey,


    You are presuming that the American workers being displaced *have* higher value skills to offer to the market place. In many cases they don't. If they did, then they would already be doing higher wage, higher skilled jobs.


  • John Dewey

    quadropole,


    Don't you think most U.S. workers are doing higher wage, higher skilled jobs? We're basically at full employment. Immigrants can't be displacing many U.S. workers. But most of those immigrants are doing jobs that must get done. So if the illegal immigrants suddenly vanished, higher skilled workers would have to do lower skill work.

  • "I have seen it alleged, that of the cost of produce you buy at the grocery store, 5% actually makes it's way back to the farmer."


    That sounds believable. Because we live in a marketing economy and the cost of most of the stuff you buy in stores goes to marketing expenses.

  • John Dewey

    "I have seen it alleged, that of the cost of produce you buy at the grocery store, 5% actually makes it's way back to the farmer."


    "That sounds believable. Because we live in a marketing economy and the cost of most of the stuff you buy in stores goes to marketing expenses."


    Five percent sounds low to me. Is it possible this includes machine-picked produce?


    A University of California study a few years ago estimated the total farm cost to produce iceberg lettuce was 22 cents a head, of which 15 cents was for farm labor. Iceberg lettuce prices are dependent on weather conditions, but I think the average retail price at the time of the study was about $2.00 a head. So that means that at least 11% was being returned to the farm even if the farmer made no profit.


    I agree with Half Sigma that marketing expenses are the major part of produce cost. But marketing includes, of course, transport and distributor costs as well as retailer costs.

  • Produce brokers probably also make a decent amount of money.

  • Patrick

    I ain't workin' in no fields so....yeah they are doing jobs I (an American) won't do.

  • quadrupole

    John Dewey,


    Our labor force participation rate is at a record low, so there are LOTS of Americans who for various reasons aren't seeking work. I suspect a great many of them are uninterested in working for wages commensurate with their skill level. Or to put it differently, there are a lot of folks being displaced by lower cost illegals who are simply exiting the labor force.

  • I suppose the best way to bring this up is with a question.

    Though Americans tend to have higher skills than many immigrants, especially illegal immigrants, what about the low-skilled Americans who are legally required to turn down any job offering less than minimum wage, that can then be taken by those who see no need to concern themselves with the law of minimum wage? Do these Americans not make up the bulk of our current unemployed?

  • JohnDewey

    JohnJ,


    Do you have any evidence that illegal immigrants anywhere in the U.S. earn less than minimum wage?


    The Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration estimates that 75% of illegal workers in the U.S. work report their income and pay FICA taxes. These employees use phony ID's to work in jobs covered by minimum wage laws.


    http://tinyurl.com/jfp2n


    Fritz Roka and Robert Emerson, of the University of Florida, determined that agriculture workers make more than minimum wage. Tomato harvest workers paid on a piece work basis average $8.87 per hour. Orange harvester pay ranges from $4.50 to $11.00 per hour, with 94% earning above minimum wage.


    http://tinyurl.com/rbpzh


    More illegal immigrants are employed in construction than in any other industry. According to this report from the Chattanooga Times Frre Press, immigrant construction workers earn between $8.00 and $14.00 per hour.


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12214048/


    That's consistent with the rates here in Texas, according to my relative who manages homebuilding projects in Houston and Dallas.


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12214048/


    "What about the low-skilled Americans who are legally required to turn down any job offering less than minimum wage"


    JohnJ, I can find no evidence of such jobs.

  • JohnDewey

    quadropole:

    "Our labor force participation rate is at a record low, so there are LOTS of Americans who for various reasons aren't seeking work. I suspect a great many of them are uninterested in working for wages commensurate with their skill level."


    Upon what evidence are your suspicions based?


    According to the latest BLS report, only 1.5 million workers were marginally attached to the workforce but not counted in the unemployment statistics. These were the workers who wanted and had looked for work sometime in the past 12 months. Of those 1.5 million, fully 2/3 had not looked for work in the past 4 weeks due to school attendance or family obligations. The remainder, classified as "discouraged workers", totalled only 451,000.


    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm


    So why is the labor participation rate only 66%? Here's a few clues:


    A Census report from 2001 showed the participation rate of mothers with less than school age children is just slightly higher than 50%.


    According to the 2002 Current Population Survey, "an estimated 3,269,000 out of the 13,474,000 non-institutionalized civilians aged 18-64 who report a work limiting health problem or disability are in the labor force (i.e., 24.3 percent of all persons in the labor forces)." So 10 million persons age 18-64 have disabilities that prevent them from working.


    William Poole of the St. Louis Fed said that early retirement is a "disturbing characteristic" of employment trends in recent decades. The employment ratio of males in the 50-64 age group has dropped from 80 percent in the 1960's to only 65 percent today.

  • quadrupole

    JohnDewey


    You misunderstand. I am *not* talking about marginally attached workers (or any of the subcategories thereof, though kudos for using marginally attached, I prefer it to the somewhat fuzzier discouraged).


    Consider for example the labor force participation rate by educational attainment (2005 data):

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/forbrn.t01.htm<...>

    The participation for the lowest skilled workers (those with less than a high school diploma, ie dropouts) is 37% (compared for 60% for a foreign born worker without a high school degree). We have 18 million native born workers with less than a high school diploma, and 8 million foreign born workers in the same educational category. If 62% of our high school dropouts were in the labor force that would be an extra 4.5 million workers. Given that our foreign born workers in that educational category only number 5.3 million we are VERY close to being able to satisfy the need directly with native low skill labor, if only it were willing to work.


    My thesis is that if wages were not articifially suppresed by illegal aliens from the market clearing rate, that we would see the labor participation rate rise in the lowest skill category, and would not have to redeploy more skilled workers to those jobs.


    I find the low labor force participation rate of the unskilled likely to be a much larger factory than early retirement, or disability in lowering our labor participation rate.


    I am currently looking for historical tables that contain the native vs foreign breakdown so that I can see what the trend in time has been.


  • 25 percent of 12 million is four million.

    5 percent of 100 million (my guess at the "employable". If I'm significantly off, please correct me.) is five million.


    Hmm...


    Both of my figures should be too high. I'm sure not all of the twelve million illegal immigrants are considered "workers", just as I'm sure that my estimate of a "100 million worker" force of Americans is too high.


    But I'd like to see if the actual proportions are close. Does anyone have any numbers to go on?

  • Just to point it out, that "fact" is attributed to this quote from your article, JohnD:

    "Social Security officials do not know what fraction of the suspense file corresponds to the earnings of illegal immigrants. But they suspect that the portion is significant.


    'Our assumption is that about three-quarters of other-than-legal immigrants pay payroll taxes,' said Stephen C. Goss, Social Security's chief actuary, using the agency's term for illegal immigration."


    That's a heck of an assumption.

  • JohnDewey

    JohnJ:

    "25 percent of 12 million is four million."


    What does this refer to? Are you estimating the number of illegal immigrants who are not paying taxes? The estimates for illegal immigrants in the U.S. is indeed 12 million, but only about 7.5 million are assumed to be working. The remainder consist of non-working spouses and children.


    What are you assuming about the 4 million workers? That they work for less than minimum wage, as you suggested in the earlier post? All evidence I can find - research studies by economists - show that few if any illegal workers are earning less than minimum wage.


    I'm not arguing that wages are not reduced by the supply of illegal workers. I'm only

    answering your question:


    "What about the low-skilled Americans who are legally required to turn down any job offering less than minimum wage?"


    I still see no evidence that such jobs are being offerred.


    You may choose not to believe the estimate provided by Social Security's chief actuary - that 75% of illegal workers pay social security taxes. I don't believe actuaries just pull numbers out of the air. I feel confident he's got more evidence than you or I to support his guess.


  • Um, guys - 25 percent of twelve million is *three* million.


    Carry on.

  • 3 million, of course.

    JohnD, are you suggesting that all or a vast majority of illegal immigrants who work work for minimum wage or more?


    Is that really what you believe?

  • John Dewey

    JohnJ,

    "JohnD, are you suggesting that all or a vast majority of illegal immigrants who work work for minimum wage or more?


    Is that really what you believe?"


    Yes, I believe that almost all illegal immigrants earn more than the federal minimum wage of $5.25 per hour. I'm not familiar with state minimum wages, so I can't make that claim.


    I'm sure that a few businesses pay less than minimum wage, but they cannot keep those employees for long.


    I've known very well two employers of illegal immigrants, one in Texas and one in California. They both told me they pay well above minimum wage, and that they couldn't keep their employees if they didn't.


    Yesterday morning I provided references that show illegal immigrants in agriculture and in construction are making above minimum wage. I also provided a link to the opinion of Social Security's Chief Actuary. He believes that 3/4 of illegals work in jobs which pay FICA taxes. Those employers are certainly paying minimum wage.


    I really don't wish to argue this point any further. If you have any evidence to the contrary, then provide it. Otherwise, just drop the issue.

  • Many workers claim there are two sets of wages - one for citizens or green-card holders, and a lower wage for illegal immigrants.

    "They pay me less because I don't have papers," said Mandy, 27, a clerk at a women's clothing shop.


    http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/29398...>

    ''Cleaning contractors deliberately seek out an undocumented work force because they want workers they can intimidate and exploit,'' said Lilia Garcia, executive director of the Maintenance Cooperation Trust Fund, a Los Angeles group run by business and labor representatives, which investigates janitorial companies to uncover illicit practices. ''Workers who are here legally would not work for the wages that they pay.''

    http://www.lexisone.com/news/nlibrary/n071305h....>

    Well, you asked.

  • But I realize that my news sources might not be as authoritive as your two personal friends.

  • JohnDewey

    JohnJ,


    My claim was that almost all illegals are now making the federal minimum wage of $5.15 per hour. I didn't argue that all workers are making above the minimum wage, and I certainly do believe that violations have occurred in the past.


    The second source you cited states that "cleaning contractors sometimes hire illegal immigrants for $3.50 an hour, considerably less than the $5.15-an-hour federal minimum wage." However, they provided no evidence this is still happening. Two of the three illegal workers they interviewed are making $6.25 and $5.35 per hour. The third is being paid $50 per night, but the length of his workday is not specified. The violation the reporter did find is that workers are not getting overtime pay.


    I tend not to believe reporters' claims when they don't back them up with evidence.


    Your first news story also argues that many workers are paid less than minimum wage. They only provide two wage rates: one guy is now making $6.00 per hour and one is only paid $4.09.


    Of the five employees cited in your two stories, three are earning above $5.15 per hour and one more may also be, if he's working less than 9.5 hours a night.


    IMO, the tiny sample of evidence you provided supports rather than contradicts my argument that almost all illegals are now making the federal minimum wage of $5.15 per hour.

  • John Dewey

    JohnJ,


    Here's an example of what I consider real evidence on illegal immigrant wages:


    http://tinyurl.com/eo4ny


    This study by University of Illinois - Chicago revealed that the median wage rate for undocumented workers in Chicago was $7.00 per hour. The study also notes that only 10% of undocumented workers earned less than the $5.15 minimum wage.


    The research data was compiled in the 3rd quarter of 2001. That's right in the middle of the last recession. No doubt demand for workers has increased since then. I can't find any evidence, but I believe it likely that wages for undocumented workers have increased since then.


    One could argue the Chicago labor market is not representative of the overall U.S. But as I noted in a previous post, a University of Florida study found that immigrant agriculture workers also earn more than minimum wage.


    http://tinyurl.com/rbpzh


    I have found no recent research on the wages of construction workers. However, every piece of anecdotal evidence available shows that undocumented construction workers are making considerably more than minimum wage.


  • "1.7 million (U.S. workers) take home

    even less (than the minimum wage) because the law doesn't cover them."


    http://occawlonline.pearsoned.com/bookbind/pubb...>
    (I don't know how to do that "tinyurl" thing)


    But I'm sure that those 1.7 million are legal residents who have the protection of the law, as opposed to illegal aliens, who are more willing to accept jobs that don't question whether or not the law covers them.


    It seems to me that we're kind of getting off the point here, though.

  • I'm gonna cut you off at the pass, JohnD. I'll go ahead and admit that that study doesn't prove that those 1.7 million people are still receiving less than minimum wage. Since I can't prove that it's happening right now at this very instant, I guess you're right. Sadly, that 1.7 million figure falls pretty close to 10 percent of 12 million people, but I'm sure that's not evidence in my favor or anything. Plus that discounts all the people brought here illegaly to engage in illegal industries, such as sexual slavery.

  • JohnDewey

    JohnJ,


    I don't think the source you cited is referring to illegal workers at all. Rather, it seems to be providing an out-of-date estimate for the number of workers legally exempted from minimum wage laws. As I understand it, most are in food service occupations where workers are expected to receive tips in addition to wages from the employer.


    The BLS website below provides characteristics of the 1.5 million workers paid less than $5.15 per hour in 2004. Only about 11 percent, or 165,000 are Hispanic. 60 percent are classified as white females.


    Please notice the occapational group figures. 2/3 of the 1.5 million less-than-$5.15 wage earners are in the group "Food preparation and serving occupations". IMO, most of these are likely to be waitresses or waiters.


    http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2004tbls.htm


    I think this discussion is getting a little stale, so don't expect further response.

  • I agree. There's not enough information out there to come to a solid conclusion. One could pretty much "what if" any of this to death.

  • Nate

    It's a simple rhetorical device used by politican's to put it in terms citizens can understand. It's fighting fire with fire. Protectionists claim free trade causes unemployment and now, likewise, free traders are making up their own versions of events that aren't supported by logic/facts but understood by voters.

blog comments powered by Disqus

Previous post:

Next post: