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	<title>Comments on: Buying Local</title>
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	<description>where orders emerge</description>
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		<title>By: Mark Herpel</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2007/04/buying_local.html/comment-page-1#comment-177986</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Herpel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is a good argument, I&#039;ve already read it on three other blogs today alone. But shopping locally, doesn&#039;t mean buying EVERYTHING from local sellers. Gasoline, flat screen TVs, medicines, cars, computers etc. You can&#039;t buy everything you need from local producers and I don&#039;t care where you live this is not possible. This argument is constantly used to &#039;disprove&#039; the positive effects of shopping locally but it&#039;s not 100% accurate. If you have a choice, local produce or WalMart&#039;s Mexican imports, can you re-arrange your discussion only to include duplicate goods? The argument I always make is going out to lunch, buy the burger from McDonald&#039;s or Bob&#039;s sandwich shop? Bob has a local bank account, and gets his beef and fixin&#039;s from local buyers. McDonald&#039;s ships in big bags of frozen beef and lettuce from 4 states over. A 10% shift away from the chains like this to the locally owned and operated stores works well to bolster local business. You can&#039;t use the same argument for a Ferrari or a Sony Laptop, (where you buy it local or chain) You can&#039;t buy everything from local producers. Mark
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a good argument, I&#8217;ve already read it on three other blogs today alone. But shopping locally, doesn&#8217;t mean buying EVERYTHING from local sellers. Gasoline, flat screen TVs, medicines, cars, computers etc. You can&#8217;t buy everything you need from local producers and I don&#8217;t care where you live this is not possible. This argument is constantly used to &#8216;disprove&#8217; the positive effects of shopping locally but it&#8217;s not 100% accurate. If you have a choice, local produce or WalMart&#8217;s Mexican imports, can you re-arrange your discussion only to include duplicate goods? The argument I always make is going out to lunch, buy the burger from McDonald&#8217;s or Bob&#8217;s sandwich shop? Bob has a local bank account, and gets his beef and fixin&#8217;s from local buyers. McDonald&#8217;s ships in big bags of frozen beef and lettuce from 4 states over. A 10% shift away from the chains like this to the locally owned and operated stores works well to bolster local business. You can&#8217;t use the same argument for a Ferrari or a Sony Laptop, (where you buy it local or chain) You can&#8217;t buy everything from local producers. Mark</p>
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		<title>By: True_Liberal</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2007/04/buying_local.html/comment-page-1#comment-11491</link>
		<dc:creator>True_Liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2007 10:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=3865#comment-11491</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ryan says: &quot;Just buy the best, regardless of where it&#039;s made.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;More to the point: Just buy the best VALUE, regardless of where it&#039;s made (/mined/harvested/...).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Without this paradigm, there&#039;d be no real point to importation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan says: &quot;Just buy the best, regardless of where it&#39;s made.&quot;</p>
<p>More to the point: Just buy the best VALUE, regardless of where it&#39;s made (/mined/harvested/&#8230;).</p>
<p>Without this paradigm, there&#39;d be no real point to importation.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2007/04/buying_local.html/comment-page-1#comment-11493</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=3865#comment-11493</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Re: comparative advantage. &lt;br /&gt;
(I work in the apparel industry, I am a suit pattern maker. I specialize in suit production). &lt;br /&gt;
Sitting here thinking about this I&#039;ve decided that out of all the areas in the United States in which to produce wool over garments such as this, you couldn&#039;t find a better place than within 100 miles of Philadelphia. Woolrich has been headquartered there for what, over 100 years? Not only are the raw materials readily available, the spinning and weaving facility and what not, but you have the personnel, the brains to bring this to bear. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The other thing about this, is that insomuch that Cobb mentioned the division of labor, she didn&#039;t employ the tactic herself (beyond hiring the shoemaker) and she could have. It isn&#039;t necessary to go across an ocean when a trip across town would suffice. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And the calender (18 months) and the costs were ludicrous. If you have yourself set up properly, it&#039;s a matter of days (starting from staples e.g. fiber) to a finished product. However, I can understand how it&#039;d take students and art majors months to figure it out. For the life of me, I will never understand how a theatre professor considers themselves a master of apparel production. The results -at least in this case- speak for themselves. A 100 mile suit can look like anything you&#039;d find off the peg -100 miles around Philadelphia. We couldn&#039;t do that within 100 miles of many other places in the US but certainly there.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: comparative advantage. <br />
(I work in the apparel industry, I am a suit pattern maker. I specialize in suit production). <br />
Sitting here thinking about this I&#39;ve decided that out of all the areas in the United States in which to produce wool over garments such as this, you couldn&#39;t find a better place than within 100 miles of Philadelphia. Woolrich has been headquartered there for what, over 100 years? Not only are the raw materials readily available, the spinning and weaving facility and what not, but you have the personnel, the brains to bring this to bear. </p>
<p>The other thing about this, is that insomuch that Cobb mentioned the division of labor, she didn&#39;t employ the tactic herself (beyond hiring the shoemaker) and she could have. It isn&#39;t necessary to go across an ocean when a trip across town would suffice. </p>
<p>And the calender (18 months) and the costs were ludicrous. If you have yourself set up properly, it&#39;s a matter of days (starting from staples e.g. fiber) to a finished product. However, I can understand how it&#39;d take students and art majors months to figure it out. For the life of me, I will never understand how a theatre professor considers themselves a master of apparel production. The results -at least in this case- speak for themselves. A 100 mile suit can look like anything you&#39;d find off the peg -100 miles around Philadelphia. We couldn&#39;t do that within 100 miles of many other places in the US but certainly there.</p>
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		<title>By: ben</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2007/04/buying_local.html/comment-page-1#comment-11492</link>
		<dc:creator>ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=3865#comment-11492</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;That is, unless your local area happens to have a comparative advantage in the item in question&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But comparative advantage exists at a level way below a finished suit. Think of Friedman&#039;s pencil example in his Free to Choose series. He starts by saying nobody in the world knows how to make a pencil. He goes through each part of the pencil and lists some small fraction of the ideas a humble pencil embodies. Same goes for a suit. You might get comparative advantage in an area in the production of one of the kinds of thread in a suit, but it unlikely you would also find in the same area advantage in its stiching, the production of all other materials, the integration of the suit, the design, branding, marketing, distribution, retailing, etc. And each of those categories undoubtedly has several if not dozens of specializations.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think this is the value of the suit example, it shows the near-miracles the price system can achieve and the size of its advantage over rival production systems.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;That is, unless your local area happens to have a comparative advantage in the item in question&quot;</p>
<p>But comparative advantage exists at a level way below a finished suit. Think of Friedman&#39;s pencil example in his Free to Choose series. He starts by saying nobody in the world knows how to make a pencil. He goes through each part of the pencil and lists some small fraction of the ideas a humble pencil embodies. Same goes for a suit. You might get comparative advantage in an area in the production of one of the kinds of thread in a suit, but it unlikely you would also find in the same area advantage in its stiching, the production of all other materials, the integration of the suit, the design, branding, marketing, distribution, retailing, etc. And each of those categories undoubtedly has several if not dozens of specializations.</p>
<p>I think this is the value of the suit example, it shows the near-miracles the price system can achieve and the size of its advantage over rival production systems.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2007/04/buying_local.html/comment-page-1#comment-11494</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2007 21:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=3865#comment-11494</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Person said:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;NEVERTHELESS, this whole thing seems stupid, misleading, and strawmanish. For a fair comparison, you&#039;d have to take someone already skilled in the hardest part (probably the tailor), and work from there with local materials. The suit as is looks like an amateurish job. There&#039;s no way that&#039;s characteristic of what it&#039;s like in a serious transition to locally-made clothing. Historical weavers did a lot better....Don&#039;t botch a tailoring job and use it as proof of a broader theory.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Very good! Actually, the person with the hardest job, the one with the greatest control over the quality of the finished product is a a pattern maker. As it happens, I am a suit pattern maker. I&#039;ve worked in apparel manufacturing for over 27 years.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Cobb&#039;s exercise was a bad example. It looked so bad because she didn&#039;t want to hire professionals (many theatre profs consider themselves an authority on apparel production -don&#039;t ask me why). She hired a shoemaker, why not professional weavers, or heck, just buy it from local producers (woolrich, the amish)? Then, she could have hired a real designer (who would have put the buttons on the correct side of the garment for one), a real pattern maker and a real sample maker instead of cobbling a bunch of what was described as &quot;artisans&quot; together. The result was amateur because it was put together by amateurs. [The terms artisan and craftsman are used entirely too loosely these days.] By no means does this mean that sustainable apparel has to look this ugly! Like anything -the shoemaker for example- you just hire people who know what they&#039;re doing. Easy, although it&#039;s harder to separate the wheat from the chaff these days without samples. Usually, if they have an &quot;artist&#039;s statement&quot; you can safely eliminate them from consideration. But, if you want to control every step of the process, well, then you get the result you see there. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I see a lot of designers who do the same sort of thing, control wise, not hiring the right people to do something because they think they know it all. This is a useful example of the problems created by control freaks run amok. That&#039;s what this really illustrates, poor sourcing by someone who wasn&#039;t qualified to run the project and that&#039;s it. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ryan Fuller said&lt;br /&gt;
That is, unless your local area happens to have a comparative advantage in the item in question, but then you wouldn&#039;t have to bother with a &quot;buy local&quot; policy in the first place. Just buy the best, regardless of where it&#039;s made.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;See, that&#039;s the thing that makes this even uglier. That part of PA has a comparative advantage!!! Down to including the skilled professionals. I think it was more important for her to control the vertical process. You know, give her arty friends something &quot;real&quot; to do. They can&#039;t be making a living at this. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Person said:</p>
<p>&quot;NEVERTHELESS, this whole thing seems stupid, misleading, and strawmanish. For a fair comparison, you&#39;d have to take someone already skilled in the hardest part (probably the tailor), and work from there with local materials. The suit as is looks like an amateurish job. There&#39;s no way that&#39;s characteristic of what it&#39;s like in a serious transition to locally-made clothing. Historical weavers did a lot better&#8230;.Don&#39;t botch a tailoring job and use it as proof of a broader theory.&quot;</p>
<p>Very good! Actually, the person with the hardest job, the one with the greatest control over the quality of the finished product is a a pattern maker. As it happens, I am a suit pattern maker. I&#39;ve worked in apparel manufacturing for over 27 years.</p>
<p>Cobb&#39;s exercise was a bad example. It looked so bad because she didn&#39;t want to hire professionals (many theatre profs consider themselves an authority on apparel production -don&#39;t ask me why). She hired a shoemaker, why not professional weavers, or heck, just buy it from local producers (woolrich, the amish)? Then, she could have hired a real designer (who would have put the buttons on the correct side of the garment for one), a real pattern maker and a real sample maker instead of cobbling a bunch of what was described as &quot;artisans&quot; together. The result was amateur because it was put together by amateurs. [The terms artisan and craftsman are used entirely too loosely these days.] By no means does this mean that sustainable apparel has to look this ugly! Like anything -the shoemaker for example- you just hire people who know what they&#39;re doing. Easy, although it&#39;s harder to separate the wheat from the chaff these days without samples. Usually, if they have an &quot;artist&#39;s statement&quot; you can safely eliminate them from consideration. But, if you want to control every step of the process, well, then you get the result you see there. </p>
<p>I see a lot of designers who do the same sort of thing, control wise, not hiring the right people to do something because they think they know it all. This is a useful example of the problems created by control freaks run amok. That&#39;s what this really illustrates, poor sourcing by someone who wasn&#39;t qualified to run the project and that&#39;s it. </p>
<p>Ryan Fuller said<br />
That is, unless your local area happens to have a comparative advantage in the item in question, but then you wouldn&#39;t have to bother with a &quot;buy local&quot; policy in the first place. Just buy the best, regardless of where it&#39;s made.</p>
<p>See, that&#39;s the thing that makes this even uglier. That part of PA has a comparative advantage!!! Down to including the skilled professionals. I think it was more important for her to control the vertical process. You know, give her arty friends something &quot;real&quot; to do. They can&#39;t be making a living at this. </p>
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