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Either you didn't understand my post, or you're being intentionally obtuse. I'll presume that I didn't make myself clear.

I never asserted that you made those claims, I asserted that stepping right up and making those claims would get a debate started.

Now, some questions for you: Who do you think owns those dumpsters behind McDonald's? McDonald's, or a trash company they contract with? Does the local trash company violate your community's health department regulations by providing uncovered dumpsters?

If it is legal in your area for restaurants to be provided with uncovered dumpsters, then you might want to write to your local health department and ask them why.

If it's not allowed and you know that your neighborhood McDonald's is being provided with uncovered dumpsters, then informing the health department should resolve the issue. If it doesn't, then I suggest that the problem is with the health department.

I think I just did.

brotio,

Given that I never made any of those claims, who are you arguing with yourself?

Hammer, that is the lowest common denominator argument. I live near a McDonald's (about a block away). I have always thought I would not like to be living in the house behind it. Their business profits would lower my home value and create a extermination cost on my property. My question was and is, the bathroom is a common ploy to attract customers. Grocers do it, many restaurants do it, not just McDonald's. They hide their dumpsters in enclosures in the back. They could make a better effort to be a good neighbor, but they don't because it doesn't effect their bottom line. It does effect their neighbors. I would be calling the health department daily, if my house were behind one.

Minimum wage has zero to do with a policy of cleanliness. What a Kroc.(pun intended)

And the comments about the minimum wage are on the money. A sign of how little worth the average kid brings to the job is the necessity of putting pictures instead of numbers on the cash register buttons.

Thank you, sir (can I call you "guy?"), but this was actually one of my un-snide comments; Disney actually does study things like that (waste disposal), and that is in fact the answer (my wife used to work there).

I’m sure McDonalds is the same, studying how many people sit in line (queuing theory, poisson distributions of arrival times), how many use the bathrooms (especially traveling), where people sit, etc.

Although I just experienced the worst McDonalds ever in Blythe, CA. Stay away from that one.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/5728443.html

"Daub of health not B-9 for games." Houston Chronicle 4/25/08

Can we say unintended consequences, chilluns?

What we're talking about here is not sterile-clean, shining fittings type cleanliness. We're talking working locks, soap, towels, actual water, no faeces on the floor, lit rooms, toilets unblocked after no more than a couple of hours.

Things can get so much worse that the current state of a McDonalds toilet.

By the time I was thinking of retirement in the late 70s McDonalds was the standard I had in my mind when I was designing my eventual house, and one I have used in remodeling some of the in-betweener homes.

The standard is, if it can't withstand boiling water, steam, and bleach then it doesn't belong in a kitchen or a restroom/bathroom, and if you don't wash your hands with soap and water after going to the bathroom then you aren't touching my food at any stage of preparation. Porcelain, stainless steel, tile, and cement can be disinfected quickly and easily, and they can be made very attractive.

My impression is in conflict with Freedomlover's, considering the amount of traffic they get of people from all levels of society and all ages, the average McDonalds is kept exceptionally clean.

I have also noticed that such cleanliness is a self breeder. In general,when people come into a dirty place they seem less inclined to do their part in self policing their activities; whereas, when they come into a clean place they seem more inclined to clean up after themselves to the degree possible with napkins and readily available trash containers.

Good point. Any restaurant will be a reflection of the area it's in. After all, I'm sure the Bel Air McDonald's is pretty nice.

I think this is more reflective of the area than of McDs, same for dirty bathrooms.

I just returned from Disneyland, and the level of organization and cleanliness is astounding. The lengths they go to in order to ensure maximum seamless presentation and minimal guest visibility of “cast member” (employee) functions is impressive. They’ve spent years perfecting this, studying such things as how far people will walk to throw waste in the garbage (I think the answer is 40 ft.).

Well, everyone is entitled to his opinion. My experience – or at least my perception of that experience – is very different from yours.

The biggest deterent to the "clean" of the '60's is the minimum wage law.

In Oregon, the minimum wage is $7.95 an hour. For those of you who do payroll, if the employee qualifies for health care, you can easily estimate the actual hourly cost for a single employee at the minimum wage rate.

As the minimum wage has crept up, the number of employees has crept down.

In the '60's, McDonald's used to hire a lot of kids to work each shift. They took into account shrinkage as one of the hidden perks of employment. Not all employees were guilty of committing acts of shrinkage…all the time. Some, more than others. Mistakes happen.

And there was also a lot of goof-off time. Kids had fun working at McDonalds.

Now the state has priced kids out of the job market. They have no skills. No people skills, no marketable skills–generally–at all. And McDonalds used to imprint job behavours on a lot of kids. Now, instead of four of five kids per shift making sure the dining area is clean, you have one adult taking care of the back and out front. And, reminiscent of a comment made by former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfield, electrons move faster than planes. You can see a mess out front. But the one guy responsible is working…just, somewhere else.

McDonalds competes on taste and price. You wanna burger for a buck? You gottit. And if you haven't seen the capital equipment used in preparing your food, it's worth a trip. They squeeze productivity out of every ounce of space.

Want a return to a service based economy? Want to employ more kids, and folks without job skillz?

Get rid of the minimum wage.

Oh, and the best fries I ever had were at the McDonalds kitty-corner from the Lubyank in Moscow. Just down the street from "Children's World".

The public's standards for cleanliness have certainly been raised since 1961. Growth of the McDonald's chain has apparently made tight control of operations more difficult. Certainly McDonald's reliance on larger, multi-chain franchisees may have played a part. But the stores are still primarily owned by franchisees, though they may be different from the one you knew 47 years ago. from McDonald's website

Approximately 85% of McDonald's US restaurants are owned and operated by independent business men and women, our Owner/Operators.

McDonalds in those days did not have public rest rooms because they had no inside eating area. It was walk up and take out only. The employee rest room was kept hospital clean.

Every employee was indoctrinated in hand washing, not only the necessity of doing it but exactly how to do it as well.

The wash basin was not in the rest room, it was outside the door. When you came out of the rest room you went immediately to the sink and if you didn't, and if the boss noticed, he would grab you and physically place you in front of the sink and watch you wash your hands. They were not going to risk any food contamination.

Needless to say, every other area of that little burger stand was a model of cleanliness. During the slow time between the lunch rush and the dinner rush everyone busily cleaned their area.

Today I will not eat anything from McDonalds. The area viewable from the cash register never looks clean to me. The stinking mess in their rest rooms confirms my fear that it is not a clean place.

There many be many reasons for this. In my youth the stores were privately owned and are now mostly company stores. This may have something to do with why they are not clean anymore at least in the US.

Here is some real irony. One of the cleanest looking McDonald's I've seen lately is in Cairo. The irony is that Eygpt is one of the filthiest country in the world.

Not sure how old you are, so you may not remember this. McDonald's emphasis on cleanliness in the 60's and 70's led to a pronounced change in the condition of fast food restrooms. I worked in several fast food restaurants in three different cities in my high school and college days, and I remember well the transformation. After McDonald's came to town, every Burger Chef and A&W and Pizza Hut began to notice the condition of their restrooms as well.

In one of his books, Tom Peters mentioned how McDonald's emphasis on total cleanlines, and especially restroom cleanliness, was a key success factor for the chain.

McDonald's trains all its managers and employees to believe that cleanliness is one of the chain's four most important goals:

"Tha means having the freshest and cleanest restaurants – from the kitchen and dining room to the rest rooms and parking lot"

QSC&V – the Foundation that Built McDonald's Success

I make it a point of trying out the local McDonald's when I travel abroad particularly for the regional specialities (had a lovely Chicken McKorma in London once).

In Madras (the only city where I ate in McDonald's in India), there was normal queueing – a bit of surprise given the lack of "queueing" in road traffic. (Had a chicken burger of some sort, wasn't very good.)

The only McDonald's I've been to where queueing completely broke down was at the main train station in Rome which was 20 wide and 10 deep. (Big Mac)