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I haven't read your book, but I like the idea of a progressive consumption tax, specifically a simpler progressive income tax with an unlimited allowance for tax deferred investment. Do you advocate this model?

I also like what I understand to be your theory of our credit crisis, that we use credit too much to bring consumption forward rather than to purchase the means of future production and that we often do the former while pretending to do the latter.

Since a home is a means of production fundamentally but also consumption on the margin, rising mortgage defaults, particularly on costlier homes, seems like evidence of "excessive" consumption to me. If there's another explanation, I'd like to know it. I suppose people could save to purchase the Jones' costlier house, rather than mortgaging it, but this saving doesn't create a credit crisis, so Landsburg's theory is less persuasive.

I won't promise to read the book, because I already have three on my nightstand that I'm not reading, including one of Roberts'. I'd like to know your thoughts though. Maybe I'll buy the book and drop it on the stack at least.

Ron Wilcox

"Isn't your "personal wealth reserve" a monthly check from the Federal government? Aren't income taxes withheld from your check?
Posted by: Martin Brock | Jun 7, 2008 12:58:27 PM"

One question is nothing but a reflection of your own personal bias as you have shown through previous statements, a bias founded in ignorance I might add.

The second question is a reasonable question.

The answer to both is no.

Yes I draw a military pension, and the answer to both questions is still no.

So your check from the Federal government isn't monthly? Is that it? Or maybe you have direct deposit? Income taxes aren't withheld because the amount is below the threshold for income taxation? Feel free to elaborate.

28 USC 3002
(15) "United States" means -
(A) a Federal corporation;
(B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or
(C) an instrumentality of the United States.

Ahhh gee! What United States are you giving allegiance too?

Gosh, would that mean that the Uniform Commercial Code has more to do with your daily life than the U.S.Code?

Wow, would that mean that what you were taught was a nation is just really a commercial corporation?

Did that corporation have anything to do with the creation of the land upon which you were born? Did that corporation contribute anything to your conception and birth?

Where has the real United States of the Articles of Confederation gone?

Just so much to discover!

In the meantime, ad hoc, ad homs, ad libs, ad vertise, ad verb, ad jective, and ad ios!

You're a dense little duckie.

"Isn't your "personal wealth reserve" a monthly check from the Federal government? Aren't income taxes withheld from your check?
Posted by: Martin Brock | Jun 7, 2008 12:58:27 PM"

Yes I draw a military pension, and the answer to both questions is still no.

W o u l d y o u l i k e m e t o r e p e a t t h a t r e a l s l o w?

T h e a n s w e r t o b o t h q u e s t i o n s is s t i l l n o.

LOL, you'll kill yourself before you open your mind and see what is right before you.

The answer is no to both questions and reveals that you know even less about the subject of income tax than I suspected.

So I'm mistaken that you're a military pensioner?

"Denying reality often feels good, but it's still denying reality."
Posted by: Martin Brock | Jun 7, 2008 12:58:27 PM

Pull a FRN out of your wallet and look, it has in writing "Federal Reserve Note" and I gave you this:
"Black's Law Dictionary 7th Ed.

NOTE, n 1. A written promise by one party (the maker) to pay money to another party (the payee) or to bearer. – A note is a two-party negotiable instrument unlike a draft (which is a three-party instrument)."

and you want to talk to me about denying reality? There is the official legal defintion of the term "note" and as usual you think your defintion is what is going to prevail in court. It is to laugh!

"Isn't your "personal wealth reserve" a monthly check from the Federal government? Aren't income taxes withheld from your check?
Posted by: Martin Brock | Jun 7, 2008 12:58:27 PM"

The answer is no to both questions and reveals that you know even less about the subject of income tax than I suspected.

"And you say you file no income tax return."
Posted by: Martin Brock | Jun 7, 2008 12:58:27 PM

Duckie, that's no secret; but trust me I am provided the opportunity to communicate with the loving caring folks at the IRS on a regular basis. They lie, attempt fraud, threaten, attempt coercion, and offer me regular opportunities to "make an appointment with a tax court (LOL); while I return to them their own correspondence with the reasons I am rejecting it and my reasons as I have stated here before are based upon jurisdiction not whether what I receive in exchange for my labor can be called income or not.

I have a ruling from a federal district judge that says the IRS can not ever claim that I need to keep books and records for them to examine or to justify any of my financial dealing, I stumbled into that little victory back the spring of 2001. That pretty much soldifies for me that there has never been an actual law requiring that, or else I wouldn't have that order from the court in my records.

You see duckie, my friends and I had discovered that there actually is no law requiring the keeping of books or records but making that stick in a IRS tamed federal court is difficult, and I just lucked out and had a federal asst dist atty that screwed up and admitted on the record in my court appearance that they recognized that I do not keep them and had no real answer to that.

Trust me, the IRS knows who I am and where I live, and some day they may come with guns and men to take me away; but, it won't be because of application of the law, it will be because of misapplication of the law much like the Soviets did with their dissenters. But, that won't happen now until they at least charge me in a federal court with some sort of criminal or civil offense, and that hasn't happened in the 20 plus years I have been out here. You see they can't get a legal levy unless they take me to federal court and obtain a judge's authorization (signature), which means I have the opportunity to appear and make my case. For a judge to rule against me, he will have to go against the 13th amendment, and that fact is borne out by the informative facts that I have been passing for the last four days.

Law can not compel performance.

Long ago I recognized that there really is such a thing as a "stupid" question.

The question is usually expressed this way:
"Mr. So-and-so doesn't pay any income taxes, how can we make him pay like we do?"

That is just such a stupid stupid question.

An intelligent question would be: "Mr. So-and-so doesn't pay an income tax like I do, I wonder if he will teach me what he knows and does?" (The answer is, I won't. I will only point you to the sources of information and you can go learn on your own and gain belief on your own. That is the only thing that will overcome your fear of getting off your knees and becoming a free man.)

So far the patrons of this cafe haven't thought to ask the intelligent question, duckie, especially you.

The really crazy thing to me is the fear.

It seems no one recognizes yet that people in this country who believe themselves to be prefectly innocent law-abiding folk can, without warning, go through what the Weaver family did at Ruby Ridge, the Branch Davidians did at Mt. Caramel, Tex, the family of Elian Gonzales did in Miami, and countless others who have been rousted out of bed in the middle of the night by uniformed thugs to be shot dead, their homes ransacked, loved ones thrown out into the street in their sleepwear, or naked, all because someone didn't check the address correctly (happens way more often than you'd want to believe).

That has been done, is being done, and will continue to be done with your money as long as you're afraid to stand on your hind legs and say "no more".

What we call cash, Federal Reserve Notes (FRN) are instruments of debt. That is why they are labelled "notes". We only exchange debt when we use them.

They're notes accounting for credit. When you accept money (or currency) for your produce, you accept a note accounting for the value of your produce, crediting you with this value and entitling you to something of similar value currently. If you want to hold something of similar value currently instead of the money, you need to exchange the money for something else currently, because values change over time.

After obtaining your "clear title" all you have done is secure exclusive use of the land or home, the state still owns it and can take it at any time they choose.

Like I said, it's "personal wealth" only as long as someone else can't take it from you. Your selective attention is showing again.

Isn't your "personal wealth reserve" a monthly check from the Federal government? And you say you file no income tax return. Aren't income taxes withheld from your check?

Denying reality often feels good, but it's still denying reality.

Cash, or a monetary reserve, is a component of wealth. The other component is the assets held by the individual.

These assets are further divided into personal and business assets.

Obviously, you may use words however you like. If Ben Bernanke writes higher figures in his ledger, you may call that "greater wealth", and if I write some figures on paper, you may call that wealth too, but I consider both uses of this word confusing, so I'll stick with a different standard.

For you martinduck since you brought up the subject of tax again here on this thread.
——————————————

Well in a closing note, this went exactly where I said it would back at the beginning.

STRB (chuckle) can not produce or document the exact law requiring an income tax to paid upon your even exchange of service for fruits of labor no more than, as I said, can any other tax professional, IRS agent, or Treasury dept. official.

Bruce,

for you. You might try looking at:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=252&invol=189
and
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=247&invol=179
and
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=111&page=746

Bruce, you have to realize one thing, the IRS is not going to tell you or give you a hint of anything that contradicts your anecdotal, presumptive, and conventional wisdom belief that you owe an income tax. Not on their website or in their phamptlets; and you won't find anything on sites sycophantic to the IRS, H.R.Block et. al.

Again you might also go to truthattack.org and look at Tom Cryer's winning arguments.

I am not telling anyone not to pay a lawful tax, I am only saying we should all know and understand what is lawful and what is fraudulent.

Posted by: vidyohs | Jun 7, 2008 11:19:09 AM

Another invitation to "roun' the mulberrybush". Naw, no thanks. If you only knew half of what you think you know you'd be ahead of Einstein as a figure of reverence. However, it is still ducksville for you.

"Cash is not wealth. It's an accounting device."

What we call cash, Federal Reserve Notes (FRN) are instruments of debt. That is why they are labelled "notes". We only exchange debt when we use them.

Black Law Dictionary 7th Ed.

NOTE, n 1. A written promise by one party (the maker) to pay money to another party (the payee) or to bearer. – A note is a two-party negotiable instrument unlike a draft (which is a three-party instrument).

"A personal wealth reserve is something like a house to which you hold clear title,"

I have further news for you duckie, you also will find it extremely rare that anyone in the USA ever holds "clear title" to their home or land even after "paying" off their note, or securing the land via total cash buy. That is why you will continue to pay taxes on it even after obtaining "clear title". If you actually owned it, you wouldn't pay taxes on it.

After obtaining your "clear title" all you have done is secure exclusive use of the land or home, the state still owns it and can take it at any time they choose.

"Cash or a cash equivalent (an entitlement to cash like a Treasury note) is never a personal wealth reserve. Cash is not wealth."

Cash, or a monetary reserve, is a component of wealth. The other component is the assets held by the individual.

These assets are further divided into personal and business assets.