Spontaneous Order Promotes John Stossel's Promotion of Spontaneous Order

dyslexics are not necessarily illogical

Not necessarily...

Muirgeo exhibits not illogic, but mal-logic, notice how he is almost always attacking straw men, it's as though what we write enters his brain asynchronously and he responds to this mal-interpretation rather than to what was actually written.

He's not dyslexic, he's dyslogical.

Thanks, Randy :)

muirslexia.....Oh how most excellent!

I will add that to my vocabulary

Speaking of such economics:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6069493.html

The biggest challenge America faces today is combatting the stupidity of people and the willful venality of government.

That's good, brotio :)

"muirslexia"

The simultaneous belief that a market system has never existed and that that same market system is responsible for the nation's economic woes.

dyslexics are not necessarily illogical

Not necessarily. He said he has "a type" of dyslexia. Don't know what that means, but possibly his logic circuits tend to invert inputs.

Sam, dyslexics are not necessarily illogical. Dyslexia is not correlated to intellectual ability. This guy is an idiot and that can't be blamed on dyslexia.

I guess I'll have to accept muigeo's claim to having some kind of dyslexia, if it's a sign of a systemic brain malfunction, that could explain a lot about his mal-logic.

No muirgeo,

I'm pointing out that such events do happen all the time even in your own example. Whether it is "pro" or a friendly street game is irrelevant. The order still arises in absence of rules and people can kind of figure it out on their own.

"Yeah but the problem is you guys talk your Libertarian talk in front of the children ( I mean republicans) and then they go out there and attempt to put it into practice."

by: muirgeo | Oct 21, 2008 3:10:43 AM

Once again proving that you know absolutely nothing about libertarian thought, or current affairs. Idiot.

Muirgeo,

"But I do agree they should allow there to be a completely unregulated market/ financial sector. The only rule is that all its products must be labeled properly so people can know what crap they are buying."

You've hit on the basic issue. The products of an unregulated market would not have to be labeled, because no one would buy them without understanding exactly what they are buying. Government involvement in the financial markets has led people to believe that "investing" gives them a right to returns without risk. It leads them to believe that corporations, securities, etc., are "public" property. The truth is that no one should be buying a single share of an investment that they do not completely understand. An unregulated market would be a market that leans heavily in the direction of true investment because it would severely punish speculators.

muirgeo says:

"Anything that has any investment or tie to the unregulated Wall Street will be labeled with a huge W disclaimer. Along side it will be the regulated market backed by the US government and operating under its guidance."

"I would LOVE for this to occur as a result of the current Wall Street Meltdown."

Nice avoidance in defining regulation or lack thereof regarding markets in your statement. Are you that nebulous in your day to day activities?

Wow, a choice between free markets or the New Deal (Barney Frank's words 10/20/08) part two.

Easy question to answer...

If it is one of choosing a free market model or one running under the stewardship of Pelosi/Frank, Reid, and the Tabula Rasa I'll choose freedom.

"Stossals skating metaphor fails miserably as he should have chosen to play a hockey game with no referees and no rules."

Then ask yourself how kids ever play any sports in parks or in the street. How did I play a hockey game in my driveway as a kid? How do the guys down on the court by my house ever manage to play a game without a referee?

Posted by: colson

So are you suggesting it would be wiser to play the Stanley Cup this year with no referees? Because if you are you're being pretty dumb.

And if you think Wall Street or our banking institutions are more like kids playing hockey on the street then the worlds best playing for money and a title then you're really being silly.

But I do agree they should allow there to be a completely unregulated market/ financial sector. The only rule is that all its products must be labeled properly so people can know what crap they are buying. Anything that has any investment or tie to the unregulated Wall Street will be labeled with a huge W disclaimer. Along side it will be the regulated market backed by the US government and operating under its guidance. It's products would be labeled USABP. The W shit would sit on the shelves and rot like pesticide laced produce.

I would LOVE for this to occur as a result of the current Wall Street Meltdown.

What Muirgeo fails to ignore, is that many/most of us here dislike both parties and the misguided policies they vomit upon us.

Posted by: Mcwop

Yeah but the problem is you guys talk your Libertarian talk in front of the children ( I mean republicans) and then they go out there and attempt to put it into practice. They run around and repeat the same crap as you even though they don't know what they are talking about.

Fine if you want to talk and fantasize your libertarian ideas do so in the privacy of your own homes. Don't do it in front of the children without an adult around to explain to them what it is they are hearing.

Mcwop,

The useful idiot lives in a world completely of his own creation.

Methinks

No, it's pretty much a real place that I live.

Sure, it's no Libertopia but it is real!

I am sorry but I must agree with BoscoH—what would Bryan Boytano do! Byyeeee! “Who are you?” “I am Brian Denahie—no not f**cking Bryan Denahie! Byyeee! For all of those interested, I refer the most interested to Kosmos and Taxis in Hayek’s Law, Legislation, and Liberty and then the Constitution of Liberty. Ahh, how do some of us younger Hayek fans find him in pop culture—Fritz you would be laughing your ass off. Fritz, before I became a professor and left my chair for business you used to keep me company when I was bouncing in Vegas. Your books are still close, although I have to read them three times before I understand them.

I wish You Had Been My Professor—the One Who Just Won The Nobel Sucks (and he sucked when he was mine).


Albatross

Just watched it on the DVR, fantastic!

You linbertarians just don't get it. Street hocky games always end in fights without someone to run them intelligently, unlike real hockey games that never have fights.

Mcwop,

The useful idiot lives in a world completely of his own creation. What a lot of the posters here fail to realize is that nothing gets through to his little world because, as Albatross points out, these people have an impenetrable sense of superiority over the plebes. It grieves them deeply that an uneducated redneck should have the right do make his own decisions. For how could this plebe be better capable to decide for himself what is right? He lives in a double wide, for God's sake! They have a keen admiration for what they perceive as their superior knowledge and intellect and have a strong belief in their ability to plan a Great Society. Over the centuries (for this is the thinking of the ruling classes throughout history), nothing has disabused them of this idea and nothing - barring a trip to the Gulag - ever will. But, then, they'll blame their incarceration on capitalist and bourgeois instigators and underminers and never on the flawed Utopian centrally planned policies. So, I guess nothing will ever disabuse them of their fascist, imperialist notions.

Plus, the village idiot doesn't care what you think. He's here to regurgitate words he reads in articles he doesn't understand and berate straw men of his own creation. What you think is completely irrelevant. Have you read his posts? According to him, he easily wins every argument. It would be hilarious if coming from a fictional character.

"What would Brian Boytono do?" Hil-freakin-larious!!! "Kids, don't go too fast!" That skating rink example was the best ever. Anyone a Monk fan? He does something like this every episode, just not quite so dramatic.

What Muirgeo fails to ignore, is that many/most of us here dislike both parties and the misguided policies they vomit upon us. That the economy continues to chug ahead despite Washington's stupidity is what truly amazes me.

Ooops, the line starting with "The bad news about governemnt regulations," should later read "they [regulations] must be created and enforced by almost omnipotent.."

I was going to say that as the congress controls the money that it might be better to correlate the majority party in congress with economic performance.

I tend to agree that it is better to have a Democratic president and a GOP congress. The GOP then becomes adversarial to government. When the GOP has the executive AND legislative, they are often even worse than Democrats.

The only time muirgeo believes anything that comes out of the mouths of Republican politicians is when they claim to be the party of less government and free markets, as it suits his bias.

The rest of us here understand that that is the biggest lie to come out of the mouths of most Republican politicians.

There is a guy down the street who repeatedly offers to sell me blow, which somehow managed to get cultivated, processed, shipped, and distributed from Bolivia or Columbia. Perhaps such a network is not grand enough for you, but it amazes me that such a network flourishes, despite the concerted effort by the military, state, local, and federal governments to destroy this trade. The bad news about government regulations is that, in order to be effective, they must be and enforced by almost omnipotent super-beings. Since both prospects are near impossibilities, then the two multiplied together make for even slimmer chances. It amazes me that any rational person could put such religious-like belief in such a prospect. The only explanation I can think of for such a belief, is that the person holding sed belief fancies themselves to be such an enlightened being. However, the lesson from the drugs market is that no matter how encumbered markets are by regulations, they will find a way to move ahead—albeit not as fast as we would like.

Here is another reference:

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2006/10/...>

Here is my favorite gem from the above reference:




"Using historical pricing on the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA), the Standard and Poor’s 500 Stock Index (S&P 500), the Center for Research in Security Prices (CRSP) Equal-Weighted Returns Index and Value-Weighted Returns Index, Ferguson and Witte* find that, “Depending on the index, daily returns when Congress is in session range from 1 to 4 basis points per day. When Congress is out of session returns range from 5 to 15 basis points a day.”

Media spin aside, in a striking conclusion Ferguson and Witte remind their readers that, “Fully 90 percent of the historical capital gains on the DJIA occurred on days when Congress was out of session"

Then ask yourself how kids ever play any sports in parks or in the street.

The question part is not the problem for the village idiot. It's the answer part that he has a tough time with. 100 bucks says we'll get incoherent word salad or irrelevant drivel.

Here is a reference Muirgeo:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB122117691244025843.html

Explain this Muirgeo. Inequality grows in a state run unanimously by the party and polices you support, we even had a big tax increase this year:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/graphic/2008-10/42985965.jpg

I'll be voting for the guy... - Village Idiot

Nobody gives a rat's flee-bitten butt what you are going to vote for.

Since you are the only one who attempted to discuss my assertions I'll reply. - Village Idiot

Ah...the folly of engaging the moron's assertions.

"Stossals skating metaphor fails miserably as he should have chosen to play a hockey game with no referees and no rules."

Then ask yourself how kids ever play any sports in parks or in the street. How did I play a hockey game in my driveway as a kid? How do the guys down on the court by my house ever manage to play a game without a referee?

muirgeo, how do you explain this then:

http://blog.wolfram.com/2008/10/16/stock-market-returns-by-presidential-party/

It's "Stossel". Idiot.

The best numbers for growth in the US are with a Democrat president and a Republican Congress, BTW.

Posted by: Don Mynack

Since you are the only one who attempted to discuss my assertions I'll reply.

Do you have a reference for your claim?

There are numbers for GDP as well. Aproximatly 5.5% under Democratic presidents and when corrected for deficit spending 3.8%. For Republican presidents the numbers are something like 3.4% and 0.5% when corrected for deficit spending.

Funny enough the fiscal conservatives only growth comes from government spending.

Yep policy matters and I'll be voting for the guy who will more likely give all you cynics a raise.

Stossal stupid show didn't spontaneously order itself. It would never even exist in it's "grand form" with out government regulations.

I opened the thread and there was the first comment. By the end of the first paragraph I knew it was from muirduck. So, I stopped reading and scrolled down to find my judgment confirmed.

It is as if the town drunk/village idiot comes up behind you on the street and you know who it is because of the smell and the shuffle. Even before you turn around you know you're dealing with a poor thing with no real mind or intellectual capability. Just minimal mental functions sufficient to get him stumbling through the day.

If you're normal, you just nod your head in sad recognition of his babble and make your escape quickly as possible, because you know he will never change.

Take out Kennedy's massive tax cuts and George Bush I's massive tax increases, and the numbers magically reverse muirgeo. What you should state is that Pro-Growth policy oddly enough leads to more growth, while Pro-Government policy leads to less growth, regardless of party.

The best numbers for growth in the US are with a Democrat president and a Republican Congress, BTW.

For anyone who believes that silliness I suggest you watch the Senate Banking Committee Hearings on Credit Markets and the Economic Crisis available on CSPAN. - Village idiot

First, moron, you actually have to understand what they're talking about during the hearings. You don't, can't and will never be able to. You apparently have one goal in life - repeatedly smearing the same stupidity all over the web. Mostly here. Your inane drivel has been addressed at least 600 to 700 times on this blog over the past two years. Nobody is swayed by your ignorant aggressive assertions. Of course, to learn that, you have to actually have a brain.

Man, he cracks me up... everyday I'm becoming more convinced that muirgeo is a caricature/strawman to ridicule statist ideas... It's too blatant.

Right, seeing muirgeo has opened his big mouth again. *sigh*

I have all 6 parts embedded at my blog for easy watching. http://economistscookbook.blogspot.com/2008/10/...>

Stossel is nothing more then a cynic who ignores the facts that policy does matter and that presidents can't do everything they promise because they DON'T have unitarian power.

Over the past 80 years there have been about 40 years of Democratic presidents and about 40 years of Republican Presidents.

The calculated rate of return on $10,000 dollars hypothetically invested in the stock market for each party's 40 year tenure is about $100,000 for Republicans and about $300,000 for Democrats. GDP grows better when a Democratic President is in office and productivity is more equally shared.

Deficit spending is massively greater and unemployment higher

under Republicans.

Stossals skating metaphor fails miserably as he should have chosen to play a hockey game with no referees and no rules.

Most importantly it is simply not a co-incidence that the second biggest economic failure has occurred again after an era of Republican dominance. It's a failure of a political and economic ideology hat can be explained on economic principles.

And finally I haven't watched the whole show but Stossal hinted that he would later push the lie that this collapse had more to do with over-regulation then under-regulation.

For anyone who believes that silliness I suggest you watch the Senate Banking Committee Hearings on Credit Markets and the Economic Crisis available on CSPAN.

Anyone who thinks this was a policy failure needs to explain how 1$ trillion dollars of credit gets leveraged to $100 trillion with out changes to regulation that allowed OTC derivatives and CDS to infest the market.

This collapse was a failure of deregulation.

The people to fear more then politicians are guys like Henry Paulson who as CEO's tell the shareholders what they want to hear then run their companies into the ground for personal short term profit.

Here is his chilling plan to fix the economy his industry broke;

From section 8. Review. "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are nonreviwable and committed to agencydiscretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

Wow! And you all want to leave the economy to run"free" in the hands of such wicked men?