Have any of our elected officials ever articulated what economic exchanges take place in an average person's life in one day, and then raised a hand when those interactions are taxed at various levels of government? I wonder if a time line would work as a graphic aid. You know, "wake up, turn on lights (utilities costs and service fees) shower (water utility cost, sewer fees, local taxes), eat breakfast (etc. etc.)…
Bob Herbert, and a horde of others in government, don't seem aware of the massive amounts of taxes collected for each transaction and service along the way of daily life. Leave aside the regulations that infringe on every aspect of what you've already done today– just tally up the times the producers, suppliers, merchants, and consumers have paid for each step taken in an 'average' day.
I, for one, really don't know what my income taxes are. I know what I pay at the end of the year on my stated income from an employer, but I've no idea what related taxes my employer paid, what I paid in extra taxes for the insurance and other benefits I get, or what taxes my retirement fund firm had to pay (over and over) on transactions through the year. I don't know what my total federal, state and local taxes were on the gasoline I bought in 08 to get to work. Same for lunch food and clothing I wore. And all of that is just my work life.
Pay taxes on financial transactions? That's a stunning idea whose time has, well, already come a few hundred times today.
Bob Herbert wants to give leeches to a hemophiliac.
MezzanineJanuary 14, 2009 at 3:58 pm
the other eric – the reason why most people don't care about the crushing burden of regulations is that 90% of us are employees not business owners.
CheersJanuary 14, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Mezzanine,
If you are an employee, every single dollar that is spent means less money in your pocket, whether it's change in regulation, or change in taxes. The rate may be 1:1 or 20:1 or 200:1, but it's there. Each final dollar that an employee makes, generally starts out as anywhere from $2-$5, (or arguably much more in a heavily regulated industry).
Although perhaps yours was a commentary on the apathy of individuals, rather than the lack of impact.
MezzanineJanuary 15, 2009 at 1:38 am
Cheers – I wasn't including myself in list of deluded employees, I GET IT. However I am speaking to the general apathy of employees. IN fact most employees these days have such a stinking sense of entitlement it sickens me.
WestWrightJanuary 15, 2009 at 7:52 am
A long time 'listener', my 1st comment @ the Cafe Hayek. Thanks to the good Prof for this site! IMO, one very important issue that has become the clarion of the Obama Admin is TRANSPARENCY. I say that we insist that they actually follow through with this Campaign Promise and the 1st part is be transparent as to the entire tax pyramid. Federal, State and Local. Call it Fairness in Taxation or some other name. What do you think?
MPFJanuary 15, 2009 at 11:34 am
I Argentina they put a tax on financial transactions in 2001, as an "emergency measure" to increaase revenue after the collapse of teh economy. Is still in place. It increased revenue, but created a big incentive to move transactions to the black economy. Cash is the preferred method in many transactions, including buying houses, which is no petty cash.
MezzanineJanuary 15, 2009 at 3:57 pm
WestWright – if you think we are going to get more transparency from big government, I've got beachfront property in Arizona to sell ya.
vidyohsJanuary 15, 2009 at 4:30 pm
WestWright,
Echoing Cheers, You are aware, are you not, that the SCOTUS had a case brought before it, withint the last three years, in which a plaintiff sued politicans for stating positions in their campaigns and then never following through when elected, in other words lying to get elected.
The ruling by SCOTUS? That politicians can lie in campaigns and are immune from being sued.
Just thought you'd like to know why your suggestion has zero chance of ever happening.
vidyohsJanuary 15, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Not picking on ya, Mezzanine, but what you said is exactly 100% of the problem the world has with such things as markets, business, economies, and personal freedom.
the other eric – the reason why most people don't care about the crushing burden of regulations is that 90% of us are employees not business owners.
Posted by: Mezzanine | Jan 14, 2009 3:58:02 PM
In fact, and I can prove it through logical and rational explanation, there are naturally (unfortunately) three kinds of people in the world.
1. Slave (this is the unfortunate)
2. Dependents, immature/elderly/physically deficient
3. Business owners.
The term employee is a mythical concept, created by people who have never seen the reality of human life.
You will never be free until you understand that you are operating your own business and you might call it Mezzanine Service Co., and you market your product(physical labor or intellectual output) to someone else for financial gain.
How is Mezzanine Service Co. any different from Paul's Plumbing Co.?
Answer, not a bit.
The fact that you sell your product to one consumer still does not alter the fact that you are no different that Paul the Plumber who isn't lucky enough to be able to conduct his business in one spot for a protracted period of time.
As a business owner we all must be concerned with light regulations or crushing regulations on business…..and my friend the customer/consumer is as much a part of business as is the seller. Any regulation to anyone of us that restricts our ability to function freely as markets and to form marketplaces is a burden and crime to all of us.
To take part in the rewarding freedom of being a business owner, you just need to tweak your thinking to understand how much control you actually have.
Thank you, Mezzanine, for the opportunity to say this.
(My own particular way of expressing what it took me years to learn and understand)
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{ 11 comments }
Have any of our elected officials ever articulated what economic exchanges take place in an average person's life in one day, and then raised a hand when those interactions are taxed at various levels of government? I wonder if a time line would work as a graphic aid. You know, "wake up, turn on lights (utilities costs and service fees) shower (water utility cost, sewer fees, local taxes), eat breakfast (etc. etc.)…
Bob Herbert, and a horde of others in government, don't seem aware of the massive amounts of taxes collected for each transaction and service along the way of daily life. Leave aside the regulations that infringe on every aspect of what you've already done today– just tally up the times the producers, suppliers, merchants, and consumers have paid for each step taken in an 'average' day.
I, for one, really don't know what my income taxes are. I know what I pay at the end of the year on my stated income from an employer, but I've no idea what related taxes my employer paid, what I paid in extra taxes for the insurance and other benefits I get, or what taxes my retirement fund firm had to pay (over and over) on transactions through the year. I don't know what my total federal, state and local taxes were on the gasoline I bought in 08 to get to work. Same for lunch food and clothing I wore. And all of that is just my work life.
Pay taxes on financial transactions? That's a stunning idea whose time has, well, already come a few hundred times today.
Bank robbers go to jail for taking your money.
Politicians consider it their job.
Bank robbers should argue equal protection.
Bob Herbert wants to give leeches to a hemophiliac.
the other eric – the reason why most people don't care about the crushing burden of regulations is that 90% of us are employees not business owners.
Mezzanine,
If you are an employee, every single dollar that is spent means less money in your pocket, whether it's change in regulation, or change in taxes. The rate may be 1:1 or 20:1 or 200:1, but it's there. Each final dollar that an employee makes, generally starts out as anywhere from $2-$5, (or arguably much more in a heavily regulated industry).
Although perhaps yours was a commentary on the apathy of individuals, rather than the lack of impact.
Cheers – I wasn't including myself in list of deluded employees, I GET IT. However I am speaking to the general apathy of employees. IN fact most employees these days have such a stinking sense of entitlement it sickens me.
A long time 'listener', my 1st comment @ the Cafe Hayek. Thanks to the good Prof for this site! IMO, one very important issue that has become the clarion of the Obama Admin is TRANSPARENCY. I say that we insist that they actually follow through with this Campaign Promise and the 1st part is be transparent as to the entire tax pyramid. Federal, State and Local. Call it Fairness in Taxation or some other name. What do you think?
I Argentina they put a tax on financial transactions in 2001, as an "emergency measure" to increaase revenue after the collapse of teh economy. Is still in place. It increased revenue, but created a big incentive to move transactions to the black economy. Cash is the preferred method in many transactions, including buying houses, which is no petty cash.
WestWright – if you think we are going to get more transparency from big government, I've got beachfront property in Arizona to sell ya.
WestWright,
Echoing Cheers, You are aware, are you not, that the SCOTUS had a case brought before it, withint the last three years, in which a plaintiff sued politicans for stating positions in their campaigns and then never following through when elected, in other words lying to get elected.
The ruling by SCOTUS? That politicians can lie in campaigns and are immune from being sued.
Just thought you'd like to know why your suggestion has zero chance of ever happening.
Not picking on ya, Mezzanine, but what you said is exactly 100% of the problem the world has with such things as markets, business, economies, and personal freedom.
the other eric – the reason why most people don't care about the crushing burden of regulations is that 90% of us are employees not business owners.
Posted by: Mezzanine | Jan 14, 2009 3:58:02 PM
In fact, and I can prove it through logical and rational explanation, there are naturally (unfortunately) three kinds of people in the world.
1. Slave (this is the unfortunate)
2. Dependents, immature/elderly/physically deficient
3. Business owners.
The term employee is a mythical concept, created by people who have never seen the reality of human life.
You will never be free until you understand that you are operating your own business and you might call it Mezzanine Service Co., and you market your product(physical labor or intellectual output) to someone else for financial gain.
How is Mezzanine Service Co. any different from Paul's Plumbing Co.?
Answer, not a bit.
The fact that you sell your product to one consumer still does not alter the fact that you are no different that Paul the Plumber who isn't lucky enough to be able to conduct his business in one spot for a protracted period of time.
As a business owner we all must be concerned with light regulations or crushing regulations on business…..and my friend the customer/consumer is as much a part of business as is the seller. Any regulation to anyone of us that restricts our ability to function freely as markets and to form marketplaces is a burden and crime to all of us.
To take part in the rewarding freedom of being a business owner, you just need to tweak your thinking to understand how much control you actually have.
Thank you, Mezzanine, for the opportunity to say this.
(My own particular way of expressing what it took me years to learn and understand)