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	<title>Comments on: Pitiless</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html</link>
	<description>where orders emerge</description>
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		<title>By: Sam Grove</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53696</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Grove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53696</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That dreaded fear of many, that someone might profit from a transaction.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That dreaded fear of many, that someone might profit from a transaction.</p>
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		<title>By: Stewart</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53697</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53697</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Your letters are always superb, Don, but this one is especially stirring.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your letters are always superb, Don, but this one is especially stirring.</p>
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		<title>By: MHodak</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53698</link>
		<dc:creator>MHodak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53698</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;The Invisible Liver&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Russ&#039;s next book?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;The Invisible Liver&quot;</p>
<p>Russ&#39;s next book?</p>
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		<title>By: MWG</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53699</link>
		<dc:creator>MWG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53699</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Simple really...&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simple really&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: seanooski</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53700</link>
		<dc:creator>seanooski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53700</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well said, sir, and I agree fully, but you will be tarred as heartless and inhuman.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, sir, and I agree fully, but you will be tarred as heartless and inhuman.</p>
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		<title>By: Mace</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53701</link>
		<dc:creator>Mace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53701</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Professor Boudreaux,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Can I use your letter in my principles class this summer?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor Boudreaux,</p>
<p>Can I use your letter in my principles class this summer?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Grove</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53702</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Grove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53702</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And what&#039;s with a policy that results in pretty much everyone involved getting paid off except for the donor of an organ?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what&#39;s with a policy that results in pretty much everyone involved getting paid off except for the donor of an organ?</p>
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		<title>By: BoscoH</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53703</link>
		<dc:creator>BoscoH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53703</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Professor, if you let people sell their organs, the natural consequence is that we&#039;ll be importing cheaper organs from China while proud American organ &lt;strike&gt;donors&lt;/strike&gt; sellers are underutilized. It&#039;s a slippery slope.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor, if you let people sell their organs, the natural consequence is that we&#39;ll be importing cheaper organs from China while proud American organ <strike>donors</strike> sellers are underutilized. It&#39;s a slippery slope.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Boudreaux</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53704</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Boudreaux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53704</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for all of your comments.  Please feel free to use anything that I post at Cafe Hayek.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Don&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all of your comments.  Please feel free to use anything that I post at Cafe Hayek.</p>
<p>Don</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53705</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53705</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think people are more repulsed by the idea that the rich would be afford to pay the highest price (the organs would obviously be sold to the highest bidder) and thus continue living while the poor would die because they would not be able to afford it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;People would much rather the outcome be determined by something other than one&#039;s wealth when it comes to health care, and especially so when it is a life or death matter.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t think people really are against the idea that someone is making money off of the transaction, although that might be a factor for some for those who are against profit.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people are more repulsed by the idea that the rich would be afford to pay the highest price (the organs would obviously be sold to the highest bidder) and thus continue living while the poor would die because they would not be able to afford it.</p>
<p>People would much rather the outcome be determined by something other than one&#39;s wealth when it comes to health care, and especially so when it is a life or death matter.</p>
<p>I don&#39;t think people really are against the idea that someone is making money off of the transaction, although that might be a factor for some for those who are against profit.</p>
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		<title>By: SheetWise</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53706</link>
		<dc:creator>SheetWise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53706</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;I think people are more repulsed by the idea that the rich would be afford to pay the highest price (the organs would obviously be sold to the highest bidder) and thus continue living while the poor would die because they would not be able to afford it.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Whatever market evolved, it would be driven by the medical community and would probably be pretty stable.  The advantage of wealth would be the ability to bribe the market maker (doctor), not the seller.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&quot;I think people are more repulsed by the idea that the rich would be afford to pay the highest price (the organs would obviously be sold to the highest bidder) and thus continue living while the poor would die because they would not be able to afford it.&quot;</i></p>
<p>Whatever market evolved, it would be driven by the medical community and would probably be pretty stable.  The advantage of wealth would be the ability to bribe the market maker (doctor), not the seller.</p>
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		<title>By: indiana jim</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53707</link>
		<dc:creator>indiana jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53707</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think David Crosby&#039;s move up the donor lists many years ago was no exactly in line with the way ordering on the list is supposed to go (Crosby of CSNY was not only a hugely popular singer, he was a heavy user of control substances as he reports in his book Long Time Gone).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If markets for organs existed, Crosby (and Jobs, etc.) would get theirs, but so would lots of others.  The notion that allowing price to allocate resources will leave only the rich consuming high quality goods is folly of the first order.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A market for organs will INCREASE the quantity supplied Stephen; this is the law of supply.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think David Crosby&#39;s move up the donor lists many years ago was no exactly in line with the way ordering on the list is supposed to go (Crosby of CSNY was not only a hugely popular singer, he was a heavy user of control substances as he reports in his book Long Time Gone).</p>
<p>If markets for organs existed, Crosby (and Jobs, etc.) would get theirs, but so would lots of others.  The notion that allowing price to allocate resources will leave only the rich consuming high quality goods is folly of the first order.  </p>
<p>A market for organs will INCREASE the quantity supplied Stephen; this is the law of supply.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Platt</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53708</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Platt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53708</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I proposed a free market in donor organs to a widely respected expert in intensive care medicine during a conference question session. I said I would like to see organs auctioned on eBay. After all, the organs belong to the people they are in. Why shouldn&#039;t those people have the right to do whatever they want with them?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;He was utterly horrified, and described the idea as &quot;the cult of the individual gone mad&quot; or similar. His concern was that if poor people could make money by disassembling their healthy bodies, other people would exploit them. Society would be dehumanized. He felt that the medical profession has a strong ethical obligation to protect the world from this kind of rapacious exploitation. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The trouble is, so long as we are thus protected, more people die through lack of organs. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;People already sell their blood. It seems a small step to allow the occasional kidney. But should a financially desperate person be allowed to blind himself by selling both corneas? Note that he will then become a burden upon the State.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I proposed a free market in donor organs to a widely respected expert in intensive care medicine during a conference question session. I said I would like to see organs auctioned on eBay. After all, the organs belong to the people they are in. Why shouldn&#39;t those people have the right to do whatever they want with them?</p>
<p>He was utterly horrified, and described the idea as &quot;the cult of the individual gone mad&quot; or similar. His concern was that if poor people could make money by disassembling their healthy bodies, other people would exploit them. Society would be dehumanized. He felt that the medical profession has a strong ethical obligation to protect the world from this kind of rapacious exploitation. </p>
<p>The trouble is, so long as we are thus protected, more people die through lack of organs. </p>
<p>People already sell their blood. It seems a small step to allow the occasional kidney. But should a financially desperate person be allowed to blind himself by selling both corneas? Note that he will then become a burden upon the State.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53709</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53709</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;And what&#039;s with a policy that results in pretty much everyone involved getting paid off except for the donor of an organ?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
-- Posted by: Sam Grove&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ain&#039;t that the truth!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s just like blood, everybody profits off it except the person who donates it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There&#039;s a shortage of blood?  Let people sell their own damn blood!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hello?  This isn&#039;t rocket science.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&quot;And what&#39;s with a policy that results in pretty much everyone involved getting paid off except for the donor of an organ?&quot;</i><br />
&#8211; Posted by: Sam Grove</p>
<p>Ain&#39;t that the truth!</p>
<p>It&#39;s just like blood, everybody profits off it except the person who donates it.</p>
<p>There&#39;s a shortage of blood?  Let people sell their own damn blood!</p>
<p>Hello?  This isn&#39;t rocket science.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Kuehn</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53710</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Kuehn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53710</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I completely agree that there should be a legal market for organs, but isn&#039;t part of the concern with this the dangerous, involuntary/criminal organ harvesting if an organ can fetch a high price?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Granted - that&#039;s not a reason not to make a market for it - you would just want to regulate it.  Perhaps only allow organ purchase from licensed, carefully watched harvesters who only collect organs from clearly willing participants.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree that there should be a legal market for organs, but isn&#39;t part of the concern with this the dangerous, involuntary/criminal organ harvesting if an organ can fetch a high price?</p>
<p>Granted &#8211; that&#39;s not a reason not to make a market for it &#8211; you would just want to regulate it.  Perhaps only allow organ purchase from licensed, carefully watched harvesters who only collect organs from clearly willing participants.</p>
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		<title>By: indiana jim</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53711</link>
		<dc:creator>indiana jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53711</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;DK,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m not sure what you mean by &quot;high price&quot;, but there are currently black markets in organs and in these the prices are much higher than those that would prevail if black markets were made obsolete by legalizing organ sales.  That is legalization would reduce the problem you are raising rather than increase it as you seem to be implying.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DK,</p>
<p>I&#39;m not sure what you mean by &quot;high price&quot;, but there are currently black markets in organs and in these the prices are much higher than those that would prevail if black markets were made obsolete by legalizing organ sales.  That is legalization would reduce the problem you are raising rather than increase it as you seem to be implying.</p>
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		<title>By: indiana jim</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53712</link>
		<dc:creator>indiana jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53712</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;DK,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m not sure what you mean by &quot;high price&quot;, but there are currently black markets in organs and in these the prices are much higher than those that would prevail if black markets were made obsolete by legalizing organ sales.  That is legalization would reduce the problem you are raising rather than increase it as you seem to be implying.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DK,</p>
<p>I&#39;m not sure what you mean by &quot;high price&quot;, but there are currently black markets in organs and in these the prices are much higher than those that would prevail if black markets were made obsolete by legalizing organ sales.  That is legalization would reduce the problem you are raising rather than increase it as you seem to be implying.</p>
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		<title>By: K Ackermann</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53713</link>
		<dc:creator>K Ackermann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53713</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It might be profitable to keep people alive so bits and pieces of them can be sold off.&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might be profitable to keep people alive so bits and pieces of them can be sold off.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53714</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53714</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Had some trouble posting...sorry, this is just a test.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Had some trouble posting&#8230;sorry, this is just a test.</p>
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		<title>By: SheetWise</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/06/pitiless.html/comment-page-1#comment-53715</link>
		<dc:creator>SheetWise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/06/pitiless.html#comment-53715</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;It might be profitable to keep people alive so bits and pieces of them can be sold off.&quot;  --K Ackermann&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;aka Aldous Huxley?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Maybe the primary question here is &lt;i&gt;when&lt;/i&gt; consent occurs.  And then, there are the questions of whether the consent was voluntary ...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Leave those to the legal scholars (or not), but if there&#039;s voluntary consent -- from an AC viewpoint, I have no problem.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If people want to voluntarily calculate an expected value for the continuation of their life vs. the sale of a vital organ and its expected value to their family and heirs -- allow them.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We should distinguish behaviors we find abhorrent and deviant from those we find simply foreign.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Jesus said that &#039;The poor will always be among us&#039; -- this wasn&#039;t a political or economic statement -- it was simply an observation.  It&#039;s politicians and economists that consistently promise remedies to this universal reality, and this reality apparently has little regard with how it&#039;s honestly measured.  It doesn&#039;t matter how successful political programs are, because the bottom quintile of the past will always be replaced by the bottom quintile of the present or future.  How convenient.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;/End rant&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Certainly there&#039;s a better solution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&quot;It might be profitable to keep people alive so bits and pieces of them can be sold off.&quot;  &#8211;K Ackermann</i></p>
<p>aka Aldous Huxley?</p>
<p>Maybe the primary question here is <i>when</i> consent occurs.  And then, there are the questions of whether the consent was voluntary &#8230;</p>
<p>Leave those to the legal scholars (or not), but if there&#39;s voluntary consent &#8212; from an AC viewpoint, I have no problem.</p>
<p>If people want to voluntarily calculate an expected value for the continuation of their life vs. the sale of a vital organ and its expected value to their family and heirs &#8212; allow them.</p>
<p>We should distinguish behaviors we find abhorrent and deviant from those we find simply foreign.</p>
<p>Jesus said that &#39;The poor will always be among us&#39; &#8212; this wasn&#39;t a political or economic statement &#8212; it was simply an observation.  It&#39;s politicians and economists that consistently promise remedies to this universal reality, and this reality apparently has little regard with how it&#39;s honestly measured.  It doesn&#39;t matter how successful political programs are, because the bottom quintile of the past will always be replaced by the bottom quintile of the present or future.  How convenient.</p>
<p>/End rant</p>
<p>Certainly there&#39;s a better solution.</p>
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