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	<title>Comments on: Economics is hard</title>
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	<description>where orders emerge</description>
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		<title>By: Wellbutrin.</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-2#comment-55830</link>
		<dc:creator>Wellbutrin.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-55830</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Seroquil wellbutrin....&lt;/strong&gt;

Wellbutrin side effects withdrawal symptoms. Wellbutrin. Weaning off wellbutrin....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Seroquil wellbutrin&#8230;.</strong></p>
<p>Wellbutrin side effects withdrawal symptoms. Wellbutrin. Weaning off wellbutrin&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Meridia.</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-2#comment-55647</link>
		<dc:creator>Meridia.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Meridia....&lt;/strong&gt;

Meridia diet forum. Meridia overnight. No prescription meridia. Meridia....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Meridia&#8230;.</strong></p>
<p>Meridia diet forum. Meridia overnight. No prescription meridia. Meridia&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: dave smith</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52775</link>
		<dc:creator>dave smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52775</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It looks like government propaganda.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like government propaganda.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52776</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52776</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Shows it has always been hard to teach economics to government bureaucrats. This is the grand daddy of Gerald Ford&#039;s Whip Inflation Now campaign.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shows it has always been hard to teach economics to government bureaucrats. This is the grand daddy of Gerald Ford&#39;s Whip Inflation Now campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin P</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52777</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52777</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How could it be wrong Russ, it was approved by the US Government of FDR? &lt;br /&gt;
Wasn&#039;t he the greatest evah!!!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;/snark&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m convinced that politicians actively promote economic and historical illiteracy. As long as the masses are kept ignorant, it&#039;s much easier to feed them misinformation and lies, like the granddaddy...we can inflate and spend our way to Utopia!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So how about another Stimulus, bigger than the first!!!!&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How could it be wrong Russ, it was approved by the US Government of FDR? <br />
Wasn&#39;t he the greatest evah!!!</p>
<p>/snark</p>
<p>I&#39;m convinced that politicians actively promote economic and historical illiteracy. As long as the masses are kept ignorant, it&#39;s much easier to feed them misinformation and lies, like the granddaddy&#8230;we can inflate and spend our way to Utopia!</p>
<p>So how about another Stimulus, bigger than the first!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Justin P</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52778</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52778</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How could it be wrong Russ, it was approved by the US Government of FDR? &lt;br /&gt;
Wasn&#039;t he the greatest evah!!!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;/snark&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m convinced that politicians actively promote economic and historical illiteracy. As long as the masses are kept ignorant, it&#039;s much easier to feed them misinformation and lies, like the granddaddy...we can inflate and spend our way to Utopia!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So how about another Stimulus, bigger than the first!!!!&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How could it be wrong Russ, it was approved by the US Government of FDR? <br />
Wasn&#39;t he the greatest evah!!!</p>
<p>/snark</p>
<p>I&#39;m convinced that politicians actively promote economic and historical illiteracy. As long as the masses are kept ignorant, it&#39;s much easier to feed them misinformation and lies, like the granddaddy&#8230;we can inflate and spend our way to Utopia!</p>
<p>So how about another Stimulus, bigger than the first!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: DAVE</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52779</link>
		<dc:creator>DAVE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52779</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;All that said, you can never get away with this kind of thing today. Never.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All that said, you can never get away with this kind of thing today. Never.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin P</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52780</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52780</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sorry for the double post...=\&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for the double post&#8230;=\</p>
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		<title>By: John Papola</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52781</link>
		<dc:creator>John Papola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52781</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;wow , that&#039;s a frightening poster.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow , that&#39;s a frightening poster.</p>
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		<title>By: R. Pointer</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52782</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Pointer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52782</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I just finished a wonderful chapter by Robert H. Bates in Perspectives in Positive Political Economy. In it he illustrates a nice way of thinking about politicians; he say that Olson (1965) isn&#039;t the only way of thinking about interest groups and politicians. For Olson, IGs lobby Pols for special favors and gain at everyone elses&#039; expense. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It could be the other way around - a politician distorts a market thereby creating a shortage (supply is less than demand) then using his position to ration to favored parties the remainder. In this way the interest group is a creation of the politician. Using this logic, Politicians understand economics just fine, they just have really screwed up incentives to deprive us of the public goods of rule of law or market prices.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just finished a wonderful chapter by Robert H. Bates in Perspectives in Positive Political Economy. In it he illustrates a nice way of thinking about politicians; he say that Olson (1965) isn&#39;t the only way of thinking about interest groups and politicians. For Olson, IGs lobby Pols for special favors and gain at everyone elses&#39; expense. </p>
<p>It could be the other way around &#8211; a politician distorts a market thereby creating a shortage (supply is less than demand) then using his position to ration to favored parties the remainder. In this way the interest group is a creation of the politician. Using this logic, Politicians understand economics just fine, they just have really screwed up incentives to deprive us of the public goods of rule of law or market prices.</p>
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		<title>By: Unit</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52783</link>
		<dc:creator>Unit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52783</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, 66 years later and you get this:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/death-category-killers&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;talk about not learning....&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, 66 years later and you get this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/death-category-killers" rel="nofollow">http://www.newrules.org/retail/news/death-category-killers</a></p>
<p>talk about not learning&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dane</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52784</link>
		<dc:creator>Dane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52784</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Devil&#039;s advocate position here, respectfully tendered:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m trying to imagine WWII waged without massive government manipulation of markets, wages, freedom, etc.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s hard to do. &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Devil&#39;s advocate position here, respectfully tendered:</p>
<p>I&#39;m trying to imagine WWII waged without massive government manipulation of markets, wages, freedom, etc.  </p>
<p>It&#39;s hard to do. </p>
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		<title>By: Methinks</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52785</link>
		<dc:creator>Methinks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52785</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;R. pointer,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;It could be the other way around - a politician distorts a market thereby creating a shortage (supply is less than demand) then using his position to ration to favored parties the remainder. In this way the interest group is a creation of the politician.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Don&#039;t you think you may be giving politicians too much credit. Usually, the distortion and associated shortages or over-supply occurs as an unintended consequence of some central planning attempt or other.  Thus, the market distortions are not the goal but a consequence of politicians pursuing their own self interest. Interest groups, however, exist in the absence of politicians.  Politicians can enhance the ability of interest groups to achieve their objectives by way of rent seeking rather than through more productive means, but I don&#039;t think interest groups are necessarily created by politicians.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R. pointer,</p>
<p><i>It could be the other way around &#8211; a politician distorts a market thereby creating a shortage (supply is less than demand) then using his position to ration to favored parties the remainder. In this way the interest group is a creation of the politician.</i></p>
<p>Don&#39;t you think you may be giving politicians too much credit. Usually, the distortion and associated shortages or over-supply occurs as an unintended consequence of some central planning attempt or other.  Thus, the market distortions are not the goal but a consequence of politicians pursuing their own self interest. Interest groups, however, exist in the absence of politicians.  Politicians can enhance the ability of interest groups to achieve their objectives by way of rent seeking rather than through more productive means, but I don&#39;t think interest groups are necessarily created by politicians.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Gardner</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52786</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52786</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My own theory is that people have an emotional attachment to their intuitive thoughts. When something mildly counter-intuitive comes along, they can choose to stop and think about it, or they could treat it as noise, and refuse to listen, even if they continue to engage in a conversation or debate. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The explanation of why minimum wage - for example - is so bad is not exactly rocket science, and it has some history to back it up, but of course, just try to explain it to someone who has made up their mind. &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My own theory is that people have an emotional attachment to their intuitive thoughts. When something mildly counter-intuitive comes along, they can choose to stop and think about it, or they could treat it as noise, and refuse to listen, even if they continue to engage in a conversation or debate. </p>
<p>The explanation of why minimum wage &#8211; for example &#8211; is so bad is not exactly rocket science, and it has some history to back it up, but of course, just try to explain it to someone who has made up their mind. </p>
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		<title>By: hutch</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52787</link>
		<dc:creator>hutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52787</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;we will pay our taxes willingly, without griping...no matter how much in taxes our government needs.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;where do you start with that?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;A United States War message prepared by the War Advertising Council; approved by the Office of War Information&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;it was definitely a good p.r. move to relabel it as defense.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;we will pay our taxes willingly, without griping&#8230;no matter how much in taxes our government needs.&quot;</p>
<p>where do you start with that?</p>
<p>&quot;A United States War message prepared by the War Advertising Council; approved by the Office of War Information&quot;</p>
<p>it was definitely a good p.r. move to relabel it as defense.</p>
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		<title>By: R. Pointer</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52788</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Pointer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52788</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Methinks,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t think it matters if they do it consciously or not. The empirical results are the same. It is not important to see inside the mind of the politician. But that said, there are plenty of examples in developing countries of politicians developing imbalances to create patron-client networks. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Boss-machine city politics in the 19th century was such in the US. Create a regulation where you limit access to a right, say a liquor or business license, then pick winners and reap the political rewards. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Secondly, think about interest groups without politicians... that would be impossible. Someone has to have political power to reward collective action.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Lastly, this is Bates&#039; formulation, not mine. But I do find it compelling. &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Methinks,</p>
<p>I don&#39;t think it matters if they do it consciously or not. The empirical results are the same. It is not important to see inside the mind of the politician. But that said, there are plenty of examples in developing countries of politicians developing imbalances to create patron-client networks. </p>
<p>Boss-machine city politics in the 19th century was such in the US. Create a regulation where you limit access to a right, say a liquor or business license, then pick winners and reap the political rewards. </p>
<p>Secondly, think about interest groups without politicians&#8230; that would be impossible. Someone has to have political power to reward collective action.</p>
<p>Lastly, this is Bates&#39; formulation, not mine. But I do find it compelling. </p>
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		<title>By: R. Pointer</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52789</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Pointer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52789</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Olson talks about political entrepreneurship. If I start a union, like Jimmy Hoffa, how is it any different than Barney Frank taking advantage of his ability to create selective incentives for his own interest groups.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What is the difference between a political party and an interest group then?&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Olson talks about political entrepreneurship. If I start a union, like Jimmy Hoffa, how is it any different than Barney Frank taking advantage of his ability to create selective incentives for his own interest groups.</p>
<p>What is the difference between a political party and an interest group then?</p>
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		<title>By: Methinks</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52790</link>
		<dc:creator>Methinks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52790</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Interesting points, R. Pointer.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I don&#039;t think it matters if they do it consciously or not. The empirical results are the same.&lt;/i&gt;  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think it matters if they do it consciously only because the implications are more sinister.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting points, R. Pointer.</p>
<p><i>I don&#39;t think it matters if they do it consciously or not. The empirical results are the same.</i>  </p>
<p>I think it matters if they do it consciously only because the implications are more sinister.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Renner</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52791</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Renner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52791</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;To be honest, I&#039;m finding it a challenge to discern the flawed economic thinking in that ad (the arrogant condescension of the government in referring to &quot;the little people&quot; and nagging about paying taxes is obviously bad, but that&#039;s more of a problem for political philosophy, no?)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The ad is essentially trying to promote tolerance among the civilian populace of a shortage of goods and services, at the then-current nominal price; it&#039;s also trying to cause a shift of demand with respect to time. &lt;br /&gt;
Assuming the necessity of the war effort, and assuming that the shortages and delayed demand were not going to last into peacetime, this doesn&#039;t seem that unreasonable. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Wouldn&#039;t the most likely alternative to civilian rationing have been materiel shortages in the military? I know the military can create waste just as much as any other public organization, but it seems to me that in the instance of WWII that could have been indulged in the short run.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest, I&#39;m finding it a challenge to discern the flawed economic thinking in that ad (the arrogant condescension of the government in referring to &quot;the little people&quot; and nagging about paying taxes is obviously bad, but that&#39;s more of a problem for political philosophy, no?)</p>
<p>The ad is essentially trying to promote tolerance among the civilian populace of a shortage of goods and services, at the then-current nominal price; it&#39;s also trying to cause a shift of demand with respect to time. <br />
Assuming the necessity of the war effort, and assuming that the shortages and delayed demand were not going to last into peacetime, this doesn&#39;t seem that unreasonable. </p>
<p>Wouldn&#39;t the most likely alternative to civilian rationing have been materiel shortages in the military? I know the military can create waste just as much as any other public organization, but it seems to me that in the instance of WWII that could have been indulged in the short run.</p>
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		<title>By: seanooski</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html/comment-page-1#comment-52792</link>
		<dc:creator>seanooski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://70.32.86.159/2009/07/economics-is-hard.html#comment-52792</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Reducing your debt and building your savings are good things to do, right? Certainly not the advice from the political class these days.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reducing your debt and building your savings are good things to do, right? Certainly not the advice from the political class these days.</p>
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