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	<title>Comments on: Cleaned by Capitalism XVII</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html</link>
	<description>where orders emerge</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183305</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183305</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m trying to figure out which is dumber--the deductive argument you attribute to Don, or the belief that Don is making a deductive argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m trying to figure out which is dumber&#8211;the deductive argument you attribute to Don, or the belief that Don is making a deductive argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183125</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183125</guid>
		<description>Are you trying to prove Billy&#039;s point about the pettiness and irrelevance of your comments on here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you trying to prove Billy&#8217;s point about the pettiness and irrelevance of your comments on here?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183120</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183120</guid>
		<description>Oh look Danny&#039;s found a playfriend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh look Danny&#8217;s found a playfriend.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183117</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183117</guid>
		<description>RE: &quot;It&#039;s dissapointing that one can&#039;t ask reasonable questions about the merits of capitalism without being charged with socialist sympathies.&quot;

Amen.  You&#039;ve described many of the commenters here to a tee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: &#8220;It&#8217;s dissapointing that one can&#8217;t ask reasonable questions about the merits of capitalism without being charged with socialist sympathies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Amen.  You&#8217;ve described many of the commenters here to a tee.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183114</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183114</guid>
		<description>Again, saying unregulated capitalism poses special problems for the  
health of the natural environment is not to say that socialism does  
not pose special problems for the health of the natural enviornment.

I think I&#039;m done with this thread. It&#039;s dissapointing that one can&#039;t  
ask reasonable questions about the merits of capitalism without being  
charged with socialist sympathies. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, saying unregulated capitalism poses special problems for the<br />
health of the natural environment is not to say that socialism does<br />
not pose special problems for the health of the natural enviornment.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;m done with this thread. It&#8217;s dissapointing that one can&#8217;t<br />
ask reasonable questions about the merits of capitalism without being<br />
charged with socialist sympathies.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183092</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183092</guid>
		<description>The USSR was an unmitigated disaster for the environment. China and India are currently unmitigated environmental disasters. That&#039;s all I need to say on that subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The USSR was an unmitigated disaster for the environment. China and India are currently unmitigated environmental disasters. That&#8217;s all I need to say on that subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183091</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183091</guid>
		<description>My point was more to do with the fact that Don seems to be conflating products that are better for us with products that help to mitigate the consequences of human actions on the natural environment (re: referring to bad breath as &quot;personal pollution&quot;). I hold the belief that capitalism is better than socialism in all ways. But to infer that someone is a socialist because they hold the belief that unregulated capitalism poses special problems for the environment is just nonsense. All forms of organization pose special, unique problems. To say that is something different than saying that these problems are (1) unsolvable and (2) a deal-breaker for the form of organization in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point was more to do with the fact that Don seems to be conflating products that are better for us with products that help to mitigate the consequences of human actions on the natural environment (re: referring to bad breath as &#8220;personal pollution&#8221;). I hold the belief that capitalism is better than socialism in all ways. But to infer that someone is a socialist because they hold the belief that unregulated capitalism poses special problems for the environment is just nonsense. All forms of organization pose special, unique problems. To say that is something different than saying that these problems are (1) unsolvable and (2) a deal-breaker for the form of organization in question.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183089</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183089</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think he was booing capitalism - I think he was just saying the argument lacked nuance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think he was booing capitalism &#8211; I think he was just saying the argument lacked nuance.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183053</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183053</guid>
		<description>Actually Billy, you&#039;ve lost focus if you have begun to believe that the small things don&#039;t count in the broad scope of things.

So many things turn on the smallest things and we never know what those may be until the turn is made and we don&#039;t approve of the direction.

I was taught as a kid in paying attention to all the details that, &quot;for the want of the nail the shoe was lost, for the want of the shoe, the horse was lost, for the want of the horse the rider was lost, for want of the rider the message was lost, for want of the message the battle was lost, for want of the battle the war was lost, for want of the victory the people became slaves.&quot;

Are Listerine Breath mint strips the nail in some job seekers life?

I appreciate what Don is doing here by reminding people, and countering the claims of the left that capitalism is evil, that their world is made infinitely better in so many ways, some so tiny and casual that we all miss them, yet there they are.

If it bores you, pass on. Hooray for capitalism (and freedom)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Billy, you&#8217;ve lost focus if you have begun to believe that the small things don&#8217;t count in the broad scope of things.</p>
<p>So many things turn on the smallest things and we never know what those may be until the turn is made and we don&#8217;t approve of the direction.</p>
<p>I was taught as a kid in paying attention to all the details that, &#8220;for the want of the nail the shoe was lost, for the want of the shoe, the horse was lost, for the want of the horse the rider was lost, for want of the rider the message was lost, for want of the message the battle was lost, for want of the battle the war was lost, for want of the victory the people became slaves.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are Listerine Breath mint strips the nail in some job seekers life?</p>
<p>I appreciate what Don is doing here by reminding people, and countering the claims of the left that capitalism is evil, that their world is made infinitely better in so many ways, some so tiny and casual that we all miss them, yet there they are.</p>
<p>If it bores you, pass on. Hooray for capitalism (and freedom)!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183052</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183052</guid>
		<description>Are there people who believe capitalism makes our world dirtier, well yes; one only has to listen regularly to Pacifica Radio (89.3FM in your area) to hear them. My local 90.1FM communist radio (Pacifica) rants on the subject all the time.

I wonder about people who can not see that all the small things as well as the large things are created (invented), all come from one individual&#039;s desire to create, develop, and market a product that will make him a profit. Capitalism. 

Even in the extremely rare circumstances where someone is already wealthy, or with that rare lack of concern for personal security, do we ever see a product created, developed, and marketed with no intent by the creator to benefit from the profits, which he donates to a cause of his choosing. An example of this would be Newman&#039;s Own series of salad dressings. Not too many broke and destitute people forego the profits of their creations.

However, even in these circumstances it would be a lie to say they do not make a profit, because the profits are what are donated.

Capitalism is huge and capitalism is tiny, but it all has the same foundation and that is the desire of the individual to profit on his day.

Without profit there is no capital,
Without capital there is no capitalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are there people who believe capitalism makes our world dirtier, well yes; one only has to listen regularly to Pacifica Radio (89.3FM in your area) to hear them. My local 90.1FM communist radio (Pacifica) rants on the subject all the time.</p>
<p>I wonder about people who can not see that all the small things as well as the large things are created (invented), all come from one individual&#8217;s desire to create, develop, and market a product that will make him a profit. Capitalism. </p>
<p>Even in the extremely rare circumstances where someone is already wealthy, or with that rare lack of concern for personal security, do we ever see a product created, developed, and marketed with no intent by the creator to benefit from the profits, which he donates to a cause of his choosing. An example of this would be Newman&#8217;s Own series of salad dressings. Not too many broke and destitute people forego the profits of their creations.</p>
<p>However, even in these circumstances it would be a lie to say they do not make a profit, because the profits are what are donated.</p>
<p>Capitalism is huge and capitalism is tiny, but it all has the same foundation and that is the desire of the individual to profit on his day.</p>
<p>Without profit there is no capital,<br />
Without capital there is no capitalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183044</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183044</guid>
		<description>Oh it could be from your snark about unregulated capitalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh it could be from your snark about unregulated capitalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183043</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183043</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t. Not sure where you inferred that from. Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t. Not sure where you inferred that from. Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183033</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183033</guid>
		<description>Hooray for capitalism. If you think socialism provides a much higher standard of living, please give me an example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hooray for capitalism. If you think socialism provides a much higher standard of living, please give me an example.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183016</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183016</guid>
		<description>Also, no government mandates or funding were involved in the creation of this product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, no government mandates or funding were involved in the creation of this product.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183006</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183006</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve enjoyed the series quite a bit - particularly the far less obvious entries, like the screen door.  But I&#039;ve wondered about this too.  Who exactly out there thinks that on net capitalism has made our lives dirtier and worse off?  I saw a preview for the new Michael Moore movie last night, so I suppose that&#039;s one - but I doubt it&#039;s many.  The real interesting point is that it obviously makes our lives cleaner in certain ways, but dirtier in others.  And the ways it makes it dirtier can often be a lot subtler and less obvious than the ways that it can make it cleaner (ie - costs and benefits that aren&#039;t internalized in the property rights regime and therefore not internalized into the price).  Gil&#039;s been frustrated with this too - notice Gil doesn&#039;t deny any of the things Don posts - he simply wants to push it a little farther.  There&#039;s no grappling with these questions or solutions.

Nevertheless, I concur with &quot;horray for capitalism&quot; :)  It&#039;s a fun series, and it doesn&#039;t have to be all things to all people.  But if one wanted to take it farther, they certainly could.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve enjoyed the series quite a bit &#8211; particularly the far less obvious entries, like the screen door.  But I&#8217;ve wondered about this too.  Who exactly out there thinks that on net capitalism has made our lives dirtier and worse off?  I saw a preview for the new Michael Moore movie last night, so I suppose that&#8217;s one &#8211; but I doubt it&#8217;s many.  The real interesting point is that it obviously makes our lives cleaner in certain ways, but dirtier in others.  And the ways it makes it dirtier can often be a lot subtler and less obvious than the ways that it can make it cleaner (ie &#8211; costs and benefits that aren&#8217;t internalized in the property rights regime and therefore not internalized into the price).  Gil&#8217;s been frustrated with this too &#8211; notice Gil doesn&#8217;t deny any of the things Don posts &#8211; he simply wants to push it a little farther.  There&#8217;s no grappling with these questions or solutions.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I concur with &#8220;horray for capitalism&#8221; <img src='http://cafehayek.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   It&#8217;s a fun series, and it doesn&#8217;t have to be all things to all people.  But if one wanted to take it farther, they certainly could.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-183004</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-183004</guid>
		<description>Shorter Don:

1. Listerine strips are good.
2. Without capitalism, there would be no listerine strips.
3. Without capitalism, there would be nothing good in the world.

No contempt for markets here. But your series has been nothing more than an exercise in the following:

1. See X.
2. X is good.
3. Hooray for capitalism. 

I&#039;m not sure there are many intellectually honest people who don&#039;t believe that capitalism makes our lives better in many ways. But it seems to me that this series began in response to the belief that &quot;pure, unregulated markets pose special problems for the health of the natural environment.&quot; In other words, you&#039;ve lost focus if you&#039;re now positing Listerine strips as justification for a feel-good mentality when it comes to capitalism and the environment. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorter Don:</p>
<p>1. Listerine strips are good.<br />
2. Without capitalism, there would be no listerine strips.<br />
3. Without capitalism, there would be nothing good in the world.</p>
<p>No contempt for markets here. But your series has been nothing more than an exercise in the following:</p>
<p>1. See X.<br />
2. X is good.<br />
3. Hooray for capitalism. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure there are many intellectually honest people who don&#8217;t believe that capitalism makes our lives better in many ways. But it seems to me that this series began in response to the belief that &#8220;pure, unregulated markets pose special problems for the health of the natural environment.&#8221; In other words, you&#8217;ve lost focus if you&#8217;re now positing Listerine strips as justification for a feel-good mentality when it comes to capitalism and the environment.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-182997</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-182997</guid>
		<description>evryone I know really loves that I use these!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>evryone I know really loves that I use these!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-182979</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-182979</guid>
		<description>Yeah, but what does it do for the Columbians and Costa Ricans if we stop drinking coffee? 

So, following your line of thought, if we stop drinking coffee, they become poorer, and unable to buy toothpaste. Their breath then stinks while yours might smell better.

So the question becomes whose breath must suffer purely to satisfy your desire to smooz, with clean breath, that cute receptionist in your company while your long suffering wife waits at home with your devastated kids?

Meanwhile Columbians and Costa Ricans starve with bad breath all because of your vanity.

Heartless bastard you turned out to be, eh? :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but what does it do for the Columbians and Costa Ricans if we stop drinking coffee? </p>
<p>So, following your line of thought, if we stop drinking coffee, they become poorer, and unable to buy toothpaste. Their breath then stinks while yours might smell better.</p>
<p>So the question becomes whose breath must suffer purely to satisfy your desire to smooz, with clean breath, that cute receptionist in your company while your long suffering wife waits at home with your devastated kids?</p>
<p>Meanwhile Columbians and Costa Ricans starve with bad breath all because of your vanity.</p>
<p>Heartless bastard you turned out to be, eh? <img src='http://cafehayek.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-182978</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-182978</guid>
		<description>I have used them. Do I love them, uh no. They are useful to one in my business of being up close to people as I must be frequently, but personally I&#039;d rather gargle on a big glass of single malt scotch. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have used them. Do I love them, uh no. They are useful to one in my business of being up close to people as I must be frequently, but personally I&#8217;d rather gargle on a big glass of single malt scotch. <img src='http://cafehayek.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/cleaned-by-capitalism-xvii.html/comment-page-1#comment-182975</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6602#comment-182975</guid>
		<description>These things are great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These things are great.</p>
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