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	<title>Comments on: On Posner the Keynesian</title>
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	<description>where orders emerge</description>
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		<title>By: Robert Fortuno</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63390</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Fortuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree that price declines due to rising productivity are desireable, but I am puzzled by your statement that the period 1865-98 was &quot;unmarred by any unusual instability.&quot; Didn&#039;t we have two financial panics during that period (1873 and 1893) followed by depressions (1873-79 and 1893-98)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that price declines due to rising productivity are desireable, but I am puzzled by your statement that the period 1865-98 was &#8220;unmarred by any unusual instability.&#8221; Didn&#39;t we have two financial panics during that period (1873 and 1893) followed by depressions (1873-79 and 1893-98)?</p>
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		<title>By: vikingvista</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63362</link>
		<dc:creator>vikingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 02:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Because P is proportional to  M * V / GDPreal.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because P is proportional to  M * V / GDPreal.</p>
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		<title>By: vikingvista</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63343</link>
		<dc:creator>vikingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 02:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63343</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link.  Looks interesting.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The period Don talks about does not stand out for its unstable GDP.  Sure, the postbellum 19th century real GDP was more dynamic with deeper recessions than the antebellum GDP (at least to the available quality of those numbers), and more dynamic than our last half century.  But, it differed from both of those periods by a higher overall growth rate.  And GDP was more stable with shallower recessions than in the preWW2 20th century.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So it makes for a mediocre point.  It does seem that greater GDP growth is associated with dynamism, so I&#039;m not so sure GDP stability per se is a desirable goal.  It seems first and foremost you want GDP growth.  Perhaps then a highly dynamic GDP with relatively shallow recessions should be the goal (who cares if positive growth is widely erratic, as long as it is positive).  But then, that&#039;s what we had during the postbellum half century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link.  Looks interesting.</p>
<p>The period Don talks about does not stand out for its unstable GDP.  Sure, the postbellum 19th century real GDP was more dynamic with deeper recessions than the antebellum GDP (at least to the available quality of those numbers), and more dynamic than our last half century.  But, it differed from both of those periods by a higher overall growth rate.  And GDP was more stable with shallower recessions than in the preWW2 20th century.</p>
<p>So it makes for a mediocre point.  It does seem that greater GDP growth is associated with dynamism, so I&#39;m not so sure GDP stability per se is a desirable goal.  It seems first and foremost you want GDP growth.  Perhaps then a highly dynamic GDP with relatively shallow recessions should be the goal (who cares if positive growth is widely erratic, as long as it is positive).  But then, that&#39;s what we had during the postbellum half century.</p>
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		<title>By: freelunch</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63339</link>
		<dc:creator>freelunch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63339</guid>
		<description>How is the inflation data information about economic stability?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is the inflation data information about economic stability?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt_Matson</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63302</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt_Matson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63302</guid>
		<description>I said real GDP growth--growth in the value of goods and services produced and consumed--was marred by instability, I did not refer to &quot;monetary&quot; stability.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And, if you would like further discussion of the &quot;unusual instability&quot; during this era, please see: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nber.org/papers/w15389&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.nber.org/papers/w15389&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Your point regarding conventional wisdom is well taken, and it is unlikely any discussion thread has sufficient space to challenge a person&#039;s economic paradigm,  but my main criticism of Boudreaux&#039;s letter is that it chastises Posner on a point by making a dubious claim regarding the late 19th century economy that, even if true, fails to establish Posner erred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I said real GDP growth&#8211;growth in the value of goods and services produced and consumed&#8211;was marred by instability, I did not refer to &#8220;monetary&#8221; stability.</p>
<p>And, if you would like further discussion of the &#8220;unusual instability&#8221; during this era, please see: <a href="http://www.nber.org/papers/w15389" rel="nofollow">http://www.nber.org/papers/w15389</a></p>
<p>Your point regarding conventional wisdom is well taken, and it is unlikely any discussion thread has sufficient space to challenge a person&#39;s economic paradigm,  but my main criticism of Boudreaux&#39;s letter is that it chastises Posner on a point by making a dubious claim regarding the late 19th century economy that, even if true, fails to establish Posner erred.</p>
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		<title>By: vikingvista</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63293</link>
		<dc:creator>vikingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63293</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good point.  There is a great ambiguity in the use of &quot;inflation&quot;.  Some define it merely as increasing prices.  Others define it as monetary inflation--growth in the money supply.  A monetarist would define it has EXCESS growth in the monetary supply relative to GDP and velocity.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Without manipulation of the money supply, you expect deflation as a consequence of economic growth because there is a fixed money supply representing increased wealth.  That is not a bad thing.  But increasing the money supply at such a time cannot reasonably be construed as helping the economy.  The only effect it has is to redistribute wealth from those furthest from the central bank to those nearest.  That is a redistribution of rewards away from those who produced the rewards.  That is not a good incentive for economic growth.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The realization that money is no more in need of manipulation than any other thing of value is what exposes monetarists like Milton Friedman as the central planners that they really are.  For me, it is a great disillusionment against someone who said many good things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#39;s a good point.  There is a great ambiguity in the use of &#8220;inflation&#8221;.  Some define it merely as increasing prices.  Others define it as monetary inflation&#8211;growth in the money supply.  A monetarist would define it has EXCESS growth in the monetary supply relative to GDP and velocity.  </p>
<p>Without manipulation of the money supply, you expect deflation as a consequence of economic growth because there is a fixed money supply representing increased wealth.  That is not a bad thing.  But increasing the money supply at such a time cannot reasonably be construed as helping the economy.  The only effect it has is to redistribute wealth from those furthest from the central bank to those nearest.  That is a redistribution of rewards away from those who produced the rewards.  That is not a good incentive for economic growth.</p>
<p>The realization that money is no more in need of manipulation than any other thing of value is what exposes monetarists like Milton Friedman as the central planners that they really are.  For me, it is a great disillusionment against someone who said many good things.</p>
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		<title>By: vikingvista</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63290</link>
		<dc:creator>vikingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63290</guid>
		<description>&quot;Although real GDP was growing during this period, that growth was, in reality, marred by unusual instability&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It was the single greatest period of monetary stability in US history:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflation_Ancient.svg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;faster growing money supply would have likely increased real GDP and employment, and perhaps increased growth of real GDP.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That is not an argument, but a disputed conclusion that is central the Austrian school&#039;s criticism.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;I would wager that a large majority of economist would agree that...&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If you are looking to have an impact from appeals to authority, you could not have come to a worse place.  There is little respect for the &quot;large majority of economist&quot; here.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I for one love a good idea, however.  You can add or detract nothing from an idea by its attribution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Although real GDP was growing during this period, that growth was, in reality, marred by unusual instability&#8221;</p>
<p>It was the single greatest period of monetary stability in US history:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflation_Ancient.svg" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical.." rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical..</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;faster growing money supply would have likely increased real GDP and employment, and perhaps increased growth of real GDP.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is not an argument, but a disputed conclusion that is central the Austrian school&#39;s criticism.</p>
<p>&#8220;I would wager that a large majority of economist would agree that&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>If you are looking to have an impact from appeals to authority, you could not have come to a worse place.  There is little respect for the &#8220;large majority of economist&#8221; here.</p>
<p>I for one love a good idea, however.  You can add or detract nothing from an idea by its attribution.</p>
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		<title>By: vikingvista</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63289</link>
		<dc:creator>vikingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63289</guid>
		<description>It wasn&#039;t an off-the-cuff invention of Dr. B&#039;s.  Nor is it an observation not long shared by some other economists.  There are data to support the contention:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflation_Ancient.svg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It wasn&#39;t an off-the-cuff invention of Dr. B&#39;s.  Nor is it an observation not long shared by some other economists.  There are data to support the contention:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflation_Ancient.svg" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical.." rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: vikingvista</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63281</link>
		<dc:creator>vikingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63281</guid>
		<description>How about the Volker contraction in the 1980&#039;s?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about the Volker contraction in the 1980&#39;s?</p>
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		<title>By: vikingvista</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63280</link>
		<dc:creator>vikingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63280</guid>
		<description>This plot supports the thesis that it was the most stable monetary interval in US history:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflation_Ancient.svg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This plot supports the thesis that it was the most stable monetary interval in US history:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical_Inflation_Ancient.svg" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical.." rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Historical..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: vikingvista</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63279</link>
		<dc:creator>vikingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63279</guid>
		<description>&quot;So the Fed&#039;s money lowers interest rates but private saving does not?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To the Keynesiac, not enough.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;The government can finance spending out of private savings, but private business cannot?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To the Keynesiac, private business DOES not.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Business men are impacted by &quot;animal spirits&quot; but politicians are not?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To the Keynesiac, yes.  And if by &quot;animal spirits&quot; is meant a rational reaction to real circumstances, I agree.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At least, that&#039;s the liquidity clap-trap as I understand it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So the Fed&#39;s money lowers interest rates but private saving does not?&#8221;</p>
<p>To the Keynesiac, not enough.  </p>
<p>&#8220;The government can finance spending out of private savings, but private business cannot?&#8221;</p>
<p>To the Keynesiac, private business DOES not.</p>
<p>&#8220;Business men are impacted by &#8220;animal spirits&#8221; but politicians are not?&#8221;</p>
<p>To the Keynesiac, yes.  And if by &#8220;animal spirits&#8221; is meant a rational reaction to real circumstances, I agree.</p>
<p>At least, that&#39;s the liquidity clap-trap as I understand it.</p>
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		<title>By: vikingvista</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63270</link>
		<dc:creator>vikingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63270</guid>
		<description>I like Rothbard&#039;s writing clarity and attempts at completeness--and am sympathetic to his program--but don&#039;t think too highly of him.  You won&#039;t get 40 pages into _Man, Economy, and State_ before you encounter rather glaring (though easily correctable) errors.  And that is the second edition.  It just reveals that he wasn&#039;t such an intellect that he couldn&#039;t miss obvious analytical problems.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Not that he didn&#039;t have some valid criticisms of Smith.  But no hero is perfect, and despite his failings, Smith&#039;s positive impact Rothbard&#039;s values are greater even than Rothbard&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Rothbard&#39;s writing clarity and attempts at completeness&#8211;and am sympathetic to his program&#8211;but don&#39;t think too highly of him.  You won&#39;t get 40 pages into _Man, Economy, and State_ before you encounter rather glaring (though easily correctable) errors.  And that is the second edition.  It just reveals that he wasn&#39;t such an intellect that he couldn&#39;t miss obvious analytical problems.</p>
<p>Not that he didn&#39;t have some valid criticisms of Smith.  But no hero is perfect, and despite his failings, Smith&#39;s positive impact Rothbard&#39;s values are greater even than Rothbard&#39;s.</p>
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		<title>By: vikingvista</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63269</link>
		<dc:creator>vikingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63269</guid>
		<description>Not a very good statistician, apparently.  What kind of statistician would take presumed correlations and assume that intervention in one or more of them would not change their meaning, but would have the same effect as pushing their corresponding line around on a graph?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not a very good statistician, apparently.  What kind of statistician would take presumed correlations and assume that intervention in one or more of them would not change their meaning, but would have the same effect as pushing their corresponding line around on a graph?</p>
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		<title>By: martinbrock</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63131</link>
		<dc:creator>martinbrock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63131</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t pretend to know precisely what Keynes meant, but I can&#039;t simply dismiss his &quot;aggregate demand&quot; and the idea that rapid dissolution of much established productive organization can depress consumption and thus production of goods that idle resources would consume if employed and will again consume when reemployed. So why idle even more resources when we&#039;ll only want them employed again, producing the same goods, when other idle resources are reemployed producing different goods? It&#039;s a fair question, particularly when established organization dissolves catastrophically, as when 10-20% of the labor force is idled in only a year or two. I don&#039;t expect this catastrophic dissolution to occur often in a sufficiently free capital market, but it did occur in the thirties for whatever reason.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On the other hand, we can&#039;t trust statesmen to replace demand lost to severe recession with demand for goods that individuals actually want to consume. Bushniks tried to construct this form of &quot;stimulus&quot; with temporary tax rebates, but it didn&#039;t seem to work well, possibly because the timing was off, possibly because employed people won&#039;t buy 10% more milk than they would otherwise have bought just because 10% of the labor force is unemployed, even if you give them a 10% bonus check. The needed &quot;stimulus&quot; is something like unemployment insurance, but $100/week doesn&#039;t replace most people&#039;s consumption, and $1000/week can discourage seeking other employment.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course, a state &lt;em&gt;can&lt;/em&gt; employ everyone doing something. The issue is not some gross volume of stuff produced. The issue is how much free consumers value the particular goods produced. That&#039;s what we need markets to gauge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t pretend to know precisely what Keynes meant, but I can&#39;t simply dismiss his &#8220;aggregate demand&#8221; and the idea that rapid dissolution of much established productive organization can depress consumption and thus production of goods that idle resources would consume if employed and will again consume when reemployed. So why idle even more resources when we&#39;ll only want them employed again, producing the same goods, when other idle resources are reemployed producing different goods? It&#39;s a fair question, particularly when established organization dissolves catastrophically, as when 10-20% of the labor force is idled in only a year or two. I don&#39;t expect this catastrophic dissolution to occur often in a sufficiently free capital market, but it did occur in the thirties for whatever reason.</p>
<p>On the other hand, we can&#39;t trust statesmen to replace demand lost to severe recession with demand for goods that individuals actually want to consume. Bushniks tried to construct this form of &#8220;stimulus&#8221; with temporary tax rebates, but it didn&#39;t seem to work well, possibly because the timing was off, possibly because employed people won&#39;t buy 10% more milk than they would otherwise have bought just because 10% of the labor force is unemployed, even if you give them a 10% bonus check. The needed &#8220;stimulus&#8221; is something like unemployment insurance, but $100/week doesn&#39;t replace most people&#39;s consumption, and $1000/week can discourage seeking other employment.</p>
<p>Of course, a state <em>can</em> employ everyone doing something. The issue is not some gross volume of stuff produced. The issue is how much free consumers value the particular goods produced. That&#39;s what we need markets to gauge.</p>
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		<title>By: JoeCushing</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63109</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeCushing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63109</guid>
		<description>Falling prices due to productivity improvements is not deflation.  It&#039;s a real price decrease.  Inflation is only a monetary phenomenon.  If productivity improves and prices stay the same, that&#039;s inflation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Falling prices due to productivity improvements is not deflation.  It&#39;s a real price decrease.  Inflation is only a monetary phenomenon.  If productivity improves and prices stay the same, that&#39;s inflation.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt_Matson</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63098</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt_Matson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63098</guid>
		<description>&quot;the U.S. the price-level fell pretty steadily from 1865 through 1898 – a period of rapid economic growth unmarred by any unusual instability.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Although real GDP was growing during this period, that growth was, in reality, marred by unusual instability.  Even if you don&#039;t consider the &quot;long depression&quot; to be a &quot;usual&quot; marring of growth, a faster growing money supply would have likely increased real GDP and employment, and perhaps increased growth of real GDP.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At a minimum, Boudreaux&#039;s letter fails to indicate that the author&#039;s view of history is one not generally accepted by economists (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nber.org/cycles/cyclesmain.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.nber.org/cycles/cyclesmain.html&lt;/a&gt;) or the people living through the time period in question (&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893&lt;/a&gt;).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And even if we grant Boudreaux his view of late 19th century history, what does it show?  I would wager that a large majority of economist would agree that &quot;deflation . . . imperils economic stability,&quot; even though it may not guarantee it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The other &quot;vital parts&quot; of economic history overlooked by Posner do not appear very vital to Posner&#039;s essay.  The central concern of the essay was the framework Keynes explicated and how he applied it to the great depression, the fact that Keynes built on previous economists&#039; works can be assumed and was not a vital concern of the essay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the U.S. the price-level fell pretty steadily from 1865 through 1898 – a period of rapid economic growth unmarred by any unusual instability.&#8221;</p>
<p>Although real GDP was growing during this period, that growth was, in reality, marred by unusual instability.  Even if you don&#39;t consider the &#8220;long depression&#8221; to be a &#8220;usual&#8221; marring of growth, a faster growing money supply would have likely increased real GDP and employment, and perhaps increased growth of real GDP.  </p>
<p>At a minimum, Boudreaux&#39;s letter fails to indicate that the author&#39;s view of history is one not generally accepted by economists (<a href="http://www.nber.org/cycles/cyclesmain.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nber.org/cycles/cyclesmain.html</a>) or the people living through the time period in question (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893</a>).</p>
<p>And even if we grant Boudreaux his view of late 19th century history, what does it show?  I would wager that a large majority of economist would agree that &#8220;deflation . . . imperils economic stability,&#8221; even though it may not guarantee it.</p>
<p>The other &#8220;vital parts&#8221; of economic history overlooked by Posner do not appear very vital to Posner&#39;s essay.  The central concern of the essay was the framework Keynes explicated and how he applied it to the great depression, the fact that Keynes built on previous economists&#39; works can be assumed and was not a vital concern of the essay.</p>
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		<title>By: simonkinahan</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63056</link>
		<dc:creator>simonkinahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63056</guid>
		<description>Which fits the evidence that we mostly have inflation, since most people work for wages and are net debtors. Keynesian econonmics is extremely broad, so as such I&#039;m not sure it can be said to accurately model anything. I mean everything from the Philips curve (definitely wrong) to monetarism (correct but too naive to be useful) to neo-Keynesian interest rate/inflation based demand management (possible correct but still hard to do right), to post-Keynesian ideas about fiat money actually being credit money are Keynesian, since they include a role for aggregate demand. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Clearly none of the policy prescriptions from any of these schools (except perhaps the post-Keynesians) would apply in a free banking system since there is no single monetary authority. Some Keynesian models might still work - the post-Keynesian credit-money model basically says the central banks is impotent to really affect the quantity of money anyway, so it might well still apply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which fits the evidence that we mostly have inflation, since most people work for wages and are net debtors. Keynesian econonmics is extremely broad, so as such I&#39;m not sure it can be said to accurately model anything. I mean everything from the Philips curve (definitely wrong) to monetarism (correct but too naive to be useful) to neo-Keynesian interest rate/inflation based demand management (possible correct but still hard to do right), to post-Keynesian ideas about fiat money actually being credit money are Keynesian, since they include a role for aggregate demand. </p>
<p>Clearly none of the policy prescriptions from any of these schools (except perhaps the post-Keynesians) would apply in a free banking system since there is no single monetary authority. Some Keynesian models might still work &#8211; the post-Keynesian credit-money model basically says the central banks is impotent to really affect the quantity of money anyway, so it might well still apply.</p>
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		<title>By: gregwebb</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63055</link>
		<dc:creator>gregwebb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63055</guid>
		<description>It is amazing how someone supposedly as smart as Judge Posner could read a book that was first published in 1936 and conclude that John Maynard Keynes has the right prescription for the current recession.  Apparently, Judge Posner did not think to see if that prescription had been tried before.  It has and it has failed every time it has been used, including the Great Stimulus Bill of 2009.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My guess is that the General Theory fits well with Judge Posner&#039;s personal views.  He accepts the view that markets (made up of millions of common people) are irrational, while government (made up of the so-called elite) are rational.  This idea is, of course, just nonsense.  Everyone, including elites, can be, and often are, irrational.  An irrational decision, and its effects, just last longer and are more severe if it is imposed by government.  Masonomics has it exactly right in saying that markets fail, but use markets anyway.  Life is not perfect, and it is time we all gave up on the illusion of an utopian society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is amazing how someone supposedly as smart as Judge Posner could read a book that was first published in 1936 and conclude that John Maynard Keynes has the right prescription for the current recession.  Apparently, Judge Posner did not think to see if that prescription had been tried before.  It has and it has failed every time it has been used, including the Great Stimulus Bill of 2009.  </p>
<p>My guess is that the General Theory fits well with Judge Posner&#39;s personal views.  He accepts the view that markets (made up of millions of common people) are irrational, while government (made up of the so-called elite) are rational.  This idea is, of course, just nonsense.  Everyone, including elites, can be, and often are, irrational.  An irrational decision, and its effects, just last longer and are more severe if it is imposed by government.  Masonomics has it exactly right in saying that markets fail, but use markets anyway.  Life is not perfect, and it is time we all gave up on the illusion of an utopian society.</p>
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		<title>By: Davidwilliams</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63054</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidwilliams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63054</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t Moore&#039;s law in which computers become twice as fast or half the cost a deflationary pressure? If deflation should be something to be feared why does one of the most competitive industries is racked by deflation high job loss inequality and large ammounts of skilled and unskilled immigration. The tech industry has a laundry list of what is supposedly bad for workers but it has the highest pay and the most dynamic industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#39;t Moore&#39;s law in which computers become twice as fast or half the cost a deflationary pressure? If deflation should be something to be feared why does one of the most competitive industries is racked by deflation high job loss inequality and large ammounts of skilled and unskilled immigration. The tech industry has a laundry list of what is supposedly bad for workers but it has the highest pay and the most dynamic industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Grove</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/09/on-posner-the-keynesian.html/comment-page-2#comment-63050</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Grove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6597#comment-63050</guid>
		<description>Public choice indicates that whichever is most politically profitable will be the more likely pursuit.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My thinking is that managed economies (via fiscal/monetary policy) are perhaps well described by Keynesian economics.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Keynesian economics therefore do not describe unmanaged economies (including free banking).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Public choice indicates that whichever is most politically profitable will be the more likely pursuit.</p>
<p>My thinking is that managed economies (via fiscal/monetary policy) are perhaps well described by Keynesian economics.</p>
<p>Keynesian economics therefore do not describe unmanaged economies (including free banking).</p>
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