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	<title>Comments on: A Pestilence</title>
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	<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html</link>
	<description>where orders emerge</description>
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		<title>By: Doug Ransom</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185948</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Ransom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 13:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185948</guid>
		<description>I think this is an important example.  People like liberty, but they dislike having their kids die in stupid accidents.  This is a pretty good counterexample to the virtues of Liberty and Hayek&#039;s idea of distributed knowledge.  

What parent knows about the engineering merits of swimming pool design and which kinds to allow their kids into?  Do they have to inspect each pool for a private certification of safety to a given standard?  It is pretty convenient to know if your kids are visiting someone with a swimming pool you have a high degree of confidence that pool meets local building codes.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is an important example.  People like liberty, but they dislike having their kids die in stupid accidents.  This is a pretty good counterexample to the virtues of Liberty and Hayek&#8217;s idea of distributed knowledge.  </p>
<p>What parent knows about the engineering merits of swimming pool design and which kinds to allow their kids into?  Do they have to inspect each pool for a private certification of safety to a given standard?  It is pretty convenient to know if your kids are visiting someone with a swimming pool you have a high degree of confidence that pool meets local building codes.</p>
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		<title>By: James Hanley</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185773</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185773</guid>
		<description>&quot;So, you really feel represented? I think the metaphor hits the mark dead center because I don&#039;t feel represented.&quot;

The point is not whether one person, or even a bunch of us feel represented (no, none of my &quot;representatives&quot; are very representative of me, either), but whether the public, collectively, gets to select them or not.  However imperfect, we do have an actual democracy now, which makes today not very comparable to 1776--when the primary complaint was that they didn&#039;t have any democratic participation.

Similar response to Michael Smith, above.  However much he and I may dislike President Obama, Obama is in fact fit to be the president of a free people, because the free people voted for him.

All that really matters in this case is the number &quot;1.&quot;  1 kid per year, in the tens of thousands of swimming pools in this country, and the millions of kids swimming in them.  By all means, let people know the (minimal) danger, but obviously this is too minimal to require such a determined bureaucratic response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So, you really feel represented? I think the metaphor hits the mark dead center because I don&#8217;t feel represented.&#8221;</p>
<p>The point is not whether one person, or even a bunch of us feel represented (no, none of my &#8220;representatives&#8221; are very representative of me, either), but whether the public, collectively, gets to select them or not.  However imperfect, we do have an actual democracy now, which makes today not very comparable to 1776&#8211;when the primary complaint was that they didn&#8217;t have any democratic participation.</p>
<p>Similar response to Michael Smith, above.  However much he and I may dislike President Obama, Obama is in fact fit to be the president of a free people, because the free people voted for him.</p>
<p>All that really matters in this case is the number &#8220;1.&#8221;  1 kid per year, in the tens of thousands of swimming pools in this country, and the millions of kids swimming in them.  By all means, let people know the (minimal) danger, but obviously this is too minimal to require such a determined bureaucratic response.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185721</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185721</guid>
		<description>Well I can&#039;t control how you feel.  I&#039;m not even sure what feelings have to do with it.  I&#039;m sure we could make changes to make things better, but you are represented, regardless of what you feel. Unlike the founders who were in no way shape or form represented in the legislature that made laws for them.I personally do feel very represented - I&#039;m very much in agreement with my Senators and my recently retired Senator, for that matter and I suppose more or less in agreement with my representative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I can&#8217;t control how you feel.  I&#8217;m not even sure what feelings have to do with it.  I&#8217;m sure we could make changes to make things better, but you are represented, regardless of what you feel. Unlike the founders who were in no way shape or form represented in the legislature that made laws for them.I personally do feel very represented &#8211; I&#8217;m very much in agreement with my Senators and my recently retired Senator, for that matter and I suppose more or less in agreement with my representative.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185718</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185718</guid>
		<description>So, you really feel represented?  I think the metaphor hits the mark dead center because I don&#039;t feel represented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, you really feel represented?  I think the metaphor hits the mark dead center because I don&#8217;t feel represented.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185715</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185715</guid>
		<description>I always find these &quot;we&#039;re the real spirit of &#039;76&quot; instincts interesting and a little odd.  The whole problem then was that Parliament instituted these officers (mostly new customs officials) without any representation of the colonies in Parliament.  It wasn&#039;t the mere existence of officials that was problematic for the founders.

That having been said, of course you can go too far with appointing officials.  Why is the federal government inspecting swimming pools?!?!?!?!  Maybe make a few laws about certain chemicals, but this is pretty goofy.  The Declaration of Independence metaphor missed it&#039;s mark, but this is still a pretty dumb thing for them to be doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always find these &#8220;we&#8217;re the real spirit of &#8217;76&#8243; instincts interesting and a little odd.  The whole problem then was that Parliament instituted these officers (mostly new customs officials) without any representation of the colonies in Parliament.  It wasn&#8217;t the mere existence of officials that was problematic for the founders.</p>
<p>That having been said, of course you can go too far with appointing officials.  Why is the federal government inspecting swimming pools?!?!?!?!  Maybe make a few laws about certain chemicals, but this is pretty goofy.  The Declaration of Independence metaphor missed it&#8217;s mark, but this is still a pretty dumb thing for them to be doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185708</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185708</guid>
		<description>From an AP story:

Alan Korn, public policy director of the Washington-based nonprofit group Safe Kids Worldwide, said the vast majority of American swimmers don’t realize that the bottom of pools and spas and wading pools are a hidden hazard, especially to children.

He said one person dies because of pool or spa drain suction in a typical year. His agency cited 33 deaths of children under age 14 between 1985 and 2004.

The article also quotes one reasonable person from the National Swimming Pool Foundation who asks how many more drownings will result due to kids not being able to take swimming lessons because their local pool has closed.

Sounds to me like the old story about how requiring infants to sit in their own seat on a plane in an attempt to save lives actually would cause more deaths because people would drive instead of buying a ticket for their child causing more infants to die in auto accidents.

Maybe Obama&#039;s minions are trying to kill more kids so they can save money on their health care plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From an AP story:</p>
<p>Alan Korn, public policy director of the Washington-based nonprofit group Safe Kids Worldwide, said the vast majority of American swimmers don’t realize that the bottom of pools and spas and wading pools are a hidden hazard, especially to children.</p>
<p>He said one person dies because of pool or spa drain suction in a typical year. His agency cited 33 deaths of children under age 14 between 1985 and 2004.</p>
<p>The article also quotes one reasonable person from the National Swimming Pool Foundation who asks how many more drownings will result due to kids not being able to take swimming lessons because their local pool has closed.</p>
<p>Sounds to me like the old story about how requiring infants to sit in their own seat on a plane in an attempt to save lives actually would cause more deaths because people would drive instead of buying a ticket for their child causing more infants to die in auto accidents.</p>
<p>Maybe Obama&#8217;s minions are trying to kill more kids so they can save money on their health care plan.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185705</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185705</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;Gosh that was brilliant, Don. I&#039;m sure you won over a lot of hearts and minds with that letter.&lt;&lt;It&#039;s a liberty thing... By the way, Inspector Pham, how many pools did you find without the correct drains?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;Gosh that was brilliant, Don. I&#8217;m sure you won over a lot of hearts and minds with that letter.&lt;&lt;It&#8217;s a liberty thing&#8230; By the way, Inspector Pham, how many pools did you find without the correct drains?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185704</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185704</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;By the way, is anyone else still getting sent to the &quot;agriculture&quot; page? It happens to me all the time, mostly at night..&lt;&lt;

Yes, and I thought it was just me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;By the way, is anyone else still getting sent to the &#8220;agriculture&#8221; page? It happens to me all the time, mostly at night..&lt;&lt;</p>
<p>Yes, and I thought it was just me.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185703</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185703</guid>
		<description>Must have sucked growing up without a pool, huh, Gil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Must have sucked growing up without a pool, huh, Gil.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Pham</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185701</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Pham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185701</guid>
		<description>Gosh that was brilliant, Don.  I&#039;m sure you won over a lot of hearts and minds with &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; letter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gosh that was brilliant, Don.  I&#8217;m sure you won over a lot of hearts and minds with <i>that</i> letter.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185700</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 06:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185700</guid>
		<description>When that happens, just click on the first link under &quot;Recent Posts&quot; on the right to go to the newest post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When that happens, just click on the first link under &#8220;Recent Posts&#8221; on the right to go to the newest post.</p>
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		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185699</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 06:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185699</guid>
		<description>Yeah me too - about the Agriculture section.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah me too &#8211; about the Agriculture section.</p>
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		<title>By: MWG</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185696</link>
		<dc:creator>MWG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185696</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d rather take my own &quot;risks&quot; that have the government breathing down my neck...

By the way, is anyone else still getting sent to the &quot;agriculture&quot; page? It happens to me all the time, mostly at night...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d rather take my own &#8220;risks&#8221; that have the government breathing down my neck&#8230;</p>
<p>By the way, is anyone else still getting sent to the &#8220;agriculture&#8221; page? It happens to me all the time, mostly at night&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185695</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185695</guid>
		<description>Are we pondering revolution now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we pondering revolution now?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185692</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 02:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185692</guid>
		<description>I am sorry but on this post, sir, you need to stick a few kids to something and preferably to places where their guts will get ripped out.

Simple cholesterol management doesn&#039;t represent the holocaust of gut ripped kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sorry but on this post, sir, you need to stick a few kids to something and preferably to places where their guts will get ripped out.</p>
<p>Simple cholesterol management doesn&#8217;t represent the holocaust of gut ripped kids.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185691</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 02:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185691</guid>
		<description>Whaaaaaat?

I read that as someone went to the trouble to actually stick a kid to the bottom of a pool. Dry pool, wet pool, we don&#039;t know. Super glue maybe in a dry pool? Shit, who knows? The kid losing his intestines from being stuck to the bottom of a dry pool by someone using super glue? Ack, how crazy is this?

Wet pool? What sticks a kid to the bottom of a wet pool? As a kid long long ago I visited the bottoms of many a pool, or stock tank, and never found anything to stick me there. Even played around the drains in the bottoms and never felt the pump force that would even make me aprehensive much less plaster me against the drain..........so much less than what might rip the guts out of me.
    I guess I am horrified at the reckless rhetoric and loose rattlely logic of such as Mogden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whaaaaaat?</p>
<p>I read that as someone went to the trouble to actually stick a kid to the bottom of a pool. Dry pool, wet pool, we don&#8217;t know. Super glue maybe in a dry pool? Shit, who knows? The kid losing his intestines from being stuck to the bottom of a dry pool by someone using super glue? Ack, how crazy is this?</p>
<p>Wet pool? What sticks a kid to the bottom of a wet pool? As a kid long long ago I visited the bottoms of many a pool, or stock tank, and never found anything to stick me there. Even played around the drains in the bottoms and never felt the pump force that would even make me aprehensive much less plaster me against the drain&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.so much less than what might rip the guts out of me.<br />
    I guess I am horrified at the reckless rhetoric and loose rattlely logic of such as Mogden.</p>
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		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185690</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 02:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185690</guid>
		<description>Nah, they&#039;ll get plenty of work digging graves for the l&#039;il kids.  Not to mention - pool deaths help to clean up the gene pool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nah, they&#8217;ll get plenty of work digging graves for the l&#8217;il kids.  Not to mention &#8211; pool deaths help to clean up the gene pool.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185687</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185687</guid>
		<description>&quot;FDA... notified General Mills that it was violating the law with its two-year-old marketing campaign that said Cheerios can lower cholesterol by 4 percent. The FDA said the company was essentially making a drug claim...&quot;

General Mills obviously failed to support or bribe the appropriate politicians and bureaucrats. Quaker Oats products have carried an identical claim for years, and that claim was fully approved by the FDA because it helps promote healthier eating. The FDA&#039;s anti-Cheerios campaign smelled funny from its onset, but I haven&#039;t seen any reports about why it was targeted so maliciously. Cereals containing lots of whole oats or oat bran do reduce cholesterol levels, but only General Mills products are banned from saying so. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;FDA&#8230; notified General Mills that it was violating the law with its two-year-old marketing campaign that said Cheerios can lower cholesterol by 4 percent. The FDA said the company was essentially making a drug claim&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>General Mills obviously failed to support or bribe the appropriate politicians and bureaucrats. Quaker Oats products have carried an identical claim for years, and that claim was fully approved by the FDA because it helps promote healthier eating. The FDA&#8217;s anti-Cheerios campaign smelled funny from its onset, but I haven&#8217;t seen any reports about why it was targeted so maliciously. Cereals containing lots of whole oats or oat bran do reduce cholesterol levels, but only General Mills products are banned from saying so.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185685</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185685</guid>
		<description>I spent the major part, and I mean major part, of my life never hearing of anyone, kid, baby, old lady, or politician getting stuck on the drain of a swimming pool. How did we come by such an epidemic so suddenly?

Hell, just make swimming pools without drains, and schedule politicians to come around and empty the pools once a month, after all everyone knows they suck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent the major part, and I mean major part, of my life never hearing of anyone, kid, baby, old lady, or politician getting stuck on the drain of a swimming pool. How did we come by such an epidemic so suddenly?</p>
<p>Hell, just make swimming pools without drains, and schedule politicians to come around and empty the pools once a month, after all everyone knows they suck.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/a-pestilence.html/comment-page-1#comment-185684</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=6873#comment-185684</guid>
		<description>Come back King George III.  All is forgiven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come back King George III.  All is forgiven.</p>
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