Comments on: Prices Are Signals — And the Truth of the Message Isn’t Changed by Distorting the Signal http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html where orders emerge Mon, 16 Jan 2012 02:06:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Doc Merlin http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-187372 Doc Merlin Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:55:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-187372 Here is a good austrian argument for how hiking the minimum wage causes slowed economic growth coupled with CPI increase. 1)You raise the cost of hiring workers, 2)This raises costs to produce goods. 3)This means enterprises that are only marginally profitable go out of business entirely. (The economy suffers) 4) Eventually the higher costs leads business to raise prices so they can stay in the black Tadah, you have CPI increase and economic stagnation. Here is a good austrian argument for how hiking the minimum wage causes slowed economic growth coupled with CPI increase.

1)You raise the cost of hiring workers,
2)This raises costs to produce goods.
3)This means enterprises that are only marginally profitable go out of business entirely. (The economy suffers)
4) Eventually the higher costs leads business to raise prices so they can stay in the black

Tadah, you have CPI increase and economic stagnation.

]]> By: Doc Merlin http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-187371 Doc Merlin Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:55:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-187371 Here is a good austrian argument for how hiking the minimum wage causes slowed economic growth coupled with CPI increase. 1)You raise the cost of hiring workers, 2)This raises costs to produce goods. 3)This means enterprises that are only marginally profitable go out of business entirely. (The economy suffers) 4) Eventually the higher costs leads business to raise prices so they can stay in the black Tadah, you have CPI increase and economic stagnation. Here is a good austrian argument for how hiking the minimum wage causes slowed economic growth coupled with CPI increase.

1)You raise the cost of hiring workers,
2)This raises costs to produce goods.
3)This means enterprises that are only marginally profitable go out of business entirely. (The economy suffers)
4) Eventually the higher costs leads business to raise prices so they can stay in the black

Tadah, you have CPI increase and economic stagnation.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-187044 Anonymous Thu, 22 Oct 2009 05:34:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-187044 Lay of the hyperbole? People like you always say America is about to be finished whenever a recession hits. Geez, we've not even hit 1982 levels! Lay of the hyperbole? People like you always say America is about to be finished whenever a recession hits. Geez, we’ve not even hit 1982 levels!

]]> By: Justin P http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-187029 Justin P Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:12:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-187029 No, it's just that ideology trumps reason sometimes. No, it’s just that ideology trumps reason sometimes.

]]> By: Justin P http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-187028 Justin P Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:11:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-187028 Muir would love Russia this time of year. Muir would love Russia this time of year.

]]> By: Justin P http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-187027 Justin P Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:10:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-187027 All praise the all father, ALGORE!!!! All praise the all father, ALGORE!!!!

]]> By: John Dewey http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186952 John Dewey Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:48:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186952 That's an interesting way to look at two periods. Did the gap between median wage rate and minimum wage rate simply grow larger? If so, then adjusting the 1969 minimum wage for median wage changes might not be valid. Worker productivity gains between 1969 and 2009 should have increased mean compensation and perhaps median compensation. Not all of that real gain was allocated to wages. A significant portion was allocated to benefits increases. But I think real wage rates still increased for the median worker. The unskilled, inexperienced worker - the one likely to be earning minimum wage - probably did not realize productivity gains which would have allowed employers to increase his wage rate. Bus boys, lawn care workers, and hospital orderlies are doing their jobs in much the same way today as they did 40 years ago. Assume that unskilled workers realized no productivity gains while almost everyone else did. The real gap between median wages and the minimum wage would surely have grown. That’s an interesting way to look at two periods.

Did the gap between median wage rate and minimum wage rate simply grow larger? If so, then adjusting the 1969 minimum wage for median wage changes might not be valid.

Worker productivity gains between 1969 and 2009 should have increased mean compensation and perhaps median compensation. Not all of that real gain was allocated to wages. A significant portion was allocated to benefits increases. But I think real wage rates still increased for the median worker.

The unskilled, inexperienced worker – the one likely to be earning minimum wage – probably did not realize productivity gains which would have allowed employers to increase his wage rate. Bus boys, lawn care workers, and hospital orderlies are doing their jobs in much the same way today as they did 40 years ago.

Assume that unskilled workers realized no productivity gains while almost everyone else did. The real gap between median wages and the minimum wage would surely have grown.

]]> By: John Dewey http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186951 John Dewey Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:48:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186951 That's an interesting way to look at two periods. Did the gap between median wage rate and minimum wage rate simply grow larger? If so, then adjusting the 1969 minimum wage for median wage changes might not be valid. Worker productivity gains between 1969 and 2009 should have increased mean compensation and perhaps median compensation. Not all of that real gain was allocated to wages. A significant portion was allocated to benefits increases. But I think real wage rates still increased for the median worker. The unskilled, inexperienced worker - the one likely to be earning minimum wage - probably did not realize productivity gains which would have allowed employers to increase his wage rate. Bus boys, lawn care workers, and hospital orderlies are doing their jobs in much the same way today as they did 40 years ago. Assume that unskilled workers realized no productivity gains while almost everyone else did. The real gap between median wages and the minimum wage would surely have grown. That’s an interesting way to look at two periods.

Did the gap between median wage rate and minimum wage rate simply grow larger? If so, then adjusting the 1969 minimum wage for median wage changes might not be valid.

Worker productivity gains between 1969 and 2009 should have increased mean compensation and perhaps median compensation. Not all of that real gain was allocated to wages. A significant portion was allocated to benefits increases. But I think real wage rates still increased for the median worker.

The unskilled, inexperienced worker – the one likely to be earning minimum wage – probably did not realize productivity gains which would have allowed employers to increase his wage rate. Bus boys, lawn care workers, and hospital orderlies are doing their jobs in much the same way today as they did 40 years ago.

Assume that unskilled workers realized no productivity gains while almost everyone else did. The real gap between median wages and the minimum wage would surely have grown.

]]> By: John Dewey http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186950 John Dewey Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:48:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186950 That's an interesting way to look at two periods. Did the gap between median wage rate and minimum wage rate simply grow larger? If so, then adjusting the 1969 minimum wage for median wage changes might not be valid. Worker productivity gains between 1969 and 2009 should have increased mean compensation and perhaps median compensation. Not all of that real gain was allocated to wages. A significant portion was allocated to benefits increases. But I think real wage rates still increased for the median worker. The unskilled, inexperienced worker - the one likely to be earning minimum wage - probably did not realize productivity gains which would have allowed employers to increase his wage rate. Bus boys, lawn care workers, and hospital orderlies are doing their jobs in much the same way today as they did 40 years ago. Assume that unskilled workers realized no productivity gains while almost everyone else did. The real gap between median wages and the minimum wage would surely have grown. That’s an interesting way to look at two periods.

Did the gap between median wage rate and minimum wage rate simply grow larger? If so, then adjusting the 1969 minimum wage for median wage changes might not be valid.

Worker productivity gains between 1969 and 2009 should have increased mean compensation and perhaps median compensation. Not all of that real gain was allocated to wages. A significant portion was allocated to benefits increases. But I think real wage rates still increased for the median worker.

The unskilled, inexperienced worker – the one likely to be earning minimum wage – probably did not realize productivity gains which would have allowed employers to increase his wage rate. Bus boys, lawn care workers, and hospital orderlies are doing their jobs in much the same way today as they did 40 years ago.

Assume that unskilled workers realized no productivity gains while almost everyone else did. The real gap between median wages and the minimum wage would surely have grown.

]]> By: John Dewey http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186949 John Dewey Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:48:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186949 That's an interesting way to look at two periods. Did the gap between median wage rate and minimum wage rate simply grow larger? If so, then adjusting the 1969 minimum wage for median wage changes might not be valid. Worker productivity gains between 1969 and 2009 should have increased mean compensation and perhaps median compensation. Not all of that real gain was allocated to wages. A significant portion was allocated to benefits increases. But I think real wage rates still increased for the median worker. The unskilled, inexperienced worker - the one likely to be earning minimum wage - probably did not realize productivity gains which would have allowed employers to increase his wage rate. Bus boys, lawn care workers, and hospital orderlies are doing their jobs in much the same way today as they did 40 years ago. Assume that unskilled workers realized no productivity gains while almost everyone else did. The real gap between median wages and the minimum wage would surely have grown. That’s an interesting way to look at two periods.

Did the gap between median wage rate and minimum wage rate simply grow larger? If so, then adjusting the 1969 minimum wage for median wage changes might not be valid.

Worker productivity gains between 1969 and 2009 should have increased mean compensation and perhaps median compensation. Not all of that real gain was allocated to wages. A significant portion was allocated to benefits increases. But I think real wage rates still increased for the median worker.

The unskilled, inexperienced worker – the one likely to be earning minimum wage – probably did not realize productivity gains which would have allowed employers to increase his wage rate. Bus boys, lawn care workers, and hospital orderlies are doing their jobs in much the same way today as they did 40 years ago.

Assume that unskilled workers realized no productivity gains while almost everyone else did. The real gap between median wages and the minimum wage would surely have grown.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186860 Anonymous Wed, 21 Oct 2009 04:14:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186860 <i>Or do you also believe that lack of pirates is what's causing global warming</i>Oh, good God! No! AGW is because we don't give enough corporate welfare to GE and ADM, and other corporations that make products deemed by His Holiness: The Divine Prophet Algore I to be vital to the survival of Mother Gaia. Learn it. Live it. Follow the teachings of the Divine Prophet, and accept The Almighty Obama as your Savior, or the planet is doomed to be consumed by Hellfire. Cardinal Yasafi Torquemuirduck: Grand Inquisitor of the Church of AGW is watching you. You have been warned. Or do you also believe that lack of pirates is what’s causing global warmingOh, good God! No! AGW is because we don’t give enough corporate welfare to GE and ADM, and other corporations that make products deemed by His Holiness: The Divine Prophet Algore I to be vital to the survival of Mother Gaia.

Learn it. Live it. Follow the teachings of the Divine Prophet, and accept The Almighty Obama as your Savior, or the planet is doomed to be consumed by Hellfire. Cardinal Yasafi Torquemuirduck: Grand Inquisitor of the Church of AGW is watching you.

You have been warned.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186857 Anonymous Wed, 21 Oct 2009 04:14:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186857 <i>Or do you also believe that lack of pirates is what's causing global warming</i>Oh, good God! No! AGW is because we don't give enough corporate welfare to GE and ADM, and other corporations that make products deemed by His Holiness: The Divine Prophet Algore I to be vital to the survival of Mother Gaia. Learn it. Live it. Follow the teachings of the Divine Prophet, and accept The Almighty Obama as your Savior, or the planet is doomed to be consumed by Hellfire. Cardinal Yasafi Torquemuirduck: Grand Inquisitor of the Church of AGW is watching you. You have been warned. Or do you also believe that lack of pirates is what’s causing global warmingOh, good God! No! AGW is because we don’t give enough corporate welfare to GE and ADM, and other corporations that make products deemed by His Holiness: The Divine Prophet Algore I to be vital to the survival of Mother Gaia.

Learn it. Live it. Follow the teachings of the Divine Prophet, and accept The Almighty Obama as your Savior, or the planet is doomed to be consumed by Hellfire. Cardinal Yasafi Torquemuirduck: Grand Inquisitor of the Church of AGW is watching you.

You have been warned.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186858 Anonymous Wed, 21 Oct 2009 04:14:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186858 <i>Or do you also believe that lack of pirates is what's causing global warming</i>Oh, good God! No! AGW is because we don't give enough corporate welfare to GE and ADM, and other corporations that make products deemed by His Holiness: The Divine Prophet Algore I to be vital to the survival of Mother Gaia. Learn it. Live it. Follow the teachings of the Divine Prophet, and accept The Almighty Obama as your Savior, or the planet is doomed to be consumed by Hellfire. Cardinal Yasafi Torquemuirduck: Grand Inquisitor of the Church of AGW is watching you. You have been warned. Or do you also believe that lack of pirates is what’s causing global warmingOh, good God! No! AGW is because we don’t give enough corporate welfare to GE and ADM, and other corporations that make products deemed by His Holiness: The Divine Prophet Algore I to be vital to the survival of Mother Gaia.

Learn it. Live it. Follow the teachings of the Divine Prophet, and accept The Almighty Obama as your Savior, or the planet is doomed to be consumed by Hellfire. Cardinal Yasafi Torquemuirduck: Grand Inquisitor of the Church of AGW is watching you.

You have been warned.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186859 Anonymous Wed, 21 Oct 2009 04:14:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186859 <i>Or do you also believe that lack of pirates is what's causing global warming</i>Oh, good God! No! AGW is because we don't give enough corporate welfare to GE and ADM, and other corporations that make products deemed by His Holiness: The Divine Prophet Algore I to be vital to the survival of Mother Gaia. Learn it. Live it. Follow the teachings of the Divine Prophet, and accept The Almighty Obama as your Savior, or the planet is doomed to be consumed by Hellfire. Cardinal Yasafi Torquemuirduck: Grand Inquisitor of the Church of AGW is watching you. You have been warned. Or do you also believe that lack of pirates is what’s causing global warmingOh, good God! No! AGW is because we don’t give enough corporate welfare to GE and ADM, and other corporations that make products deemed by His Holiness: The Divine Prophet Algore I to be vital to the survival of Mother Gaia.

Learn it. Live it. Follow the teachings of the Divine Prophet, and accept The Almighty Obama as your Savior, or the planet is doomed to be consumed by Hellfire. Cardinal Yasafi Torquemuirduck: Grand Inquisitor of the Church of AGW is watching you.

You have been warned.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186790 Anonymous Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:20:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186790 I wrote a similar, but brief, letter to my local paper last summer. I pointed out the effect of minimum wage law on the Econ 101 law of downward-sloping demand, and the adverse effect on unemployment. For my trouble, I received anonymous snailmail scolding me for being greedy and heartless. Well excuse me, I didn't advocate anything, but merely wrote to inform or remind readers of this cause-and-effect. Seems that some individuals cannot get simple principles to take hold in their heads. I wrote a similar, but brief, letter to my local paper last summer. I pointed out the effect of minimum wage law on the Econ 101 law of downward-sloping demand, and the adverse effect on unemployment.

For my trouble, I received anonymous snailmail scolding me for being greedy and heartless. Well excuse me, I didn’t advocate anything, but merely wrote to inform or remind readers of this cause-and-effect.

Seems that some individuals cannot get simple principles to take hold in their heads.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186788 Anonymous Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:20:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186788 I wrote a similar, but brief, letter to my local paper last summer. I pointed out the effect of minimum wage law on the Econ 101 law of downward-sloping demand, and the adverse effect on unemployment. For my trouble, I received anonymous snailmail scolding me for being greedy and heartless. Well excuse me, I didn't advocate anything, but merely wrote to inform or remind readers of this cause-and-effect. Seems that some individuals cannot get simple principles to take hold in their heads. I wrote a similar, but brief, letter to my local paper last summer. I pointed out the effect of minimum wage law on the Econ 101 law of downward-sloping demand, and the adverse effect on unemployment.

For my trouble, I received anonymous snailmail scolding me for being greedy and heartless. Well excuse me, I didn’t advocate anything, but merely wrote to inform or remind readers of this cause-and-effect.

Seems that some individuals cannot get simple principles to take hold in their heads.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186789 Anonymous Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:20:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186789 I wrote a similar, but brief, letter to my local paper last summer. I pointed out the effect of minimum wage law on the Econ 101 law of downward-sloping demand, and the adverse effect on unemployment. For my trouble, I received anonymous snailmail scolding me for being greedy and heartless. Well excuse me, I didn't advocate anything, but merely wrote to inform or remind readers of this cause-and-effect. Seems that some individuals cannot get simple principles to take hold in their heads. I wrote a similar, but brief, letter to my local paper last summer. I pointed out the effect of minimum wage law on the Econ 101 law of downward-sloping demand, and the adverse effect on unemployment.

For my trouble, I received anonymous snailmail scolding me for being greedy and heartless. Well excuse me, I didn’t advocate anything, but merely wrote to inform or remind readers of this cause-and-effect.

Seems that some individuals cannot get simple principles to take hold in their heads.

]]> By: Anonymous http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186787 Anonymous Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:20:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186787 I wrote a similar, but brief, letter to my local paper last summer. I pointed out the effect of minimum wage law on the Econ 101 law of downward-sloping demand, and the adverse effect on unemployment. For my trouble, I received anonymous snailmail scolding me for being greedy and heartless. Well excuse me, I didn't advocate anything, but merely wrote to inform or remind readers of this cause-and-effect. Seems that some individuals cannot get simple principles to take hold in their heads. I wrote a similar, but brief, letter to my local paper last summer. I pointed out the effect of minimum wage law on the Econ 101 law of downward-sloping demand, and the adverse effect on unemployment.

For my trouble, I received anonymous snailmail scolding me for being greedy and heartless. Well excuse me, I didn’t advocate anything, but merely wrote to inform or remind readers of this cause-and-effect.

Seems that some individuals cannot get simple principles to take hold in their heads.

]]> By: kebko http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186758 kebko Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:09:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186758 Adjusted for median wages, instead of for inflation, minimum wage in the late 60's & early 70's would have been similar to something like $15 an hour in today's economy. I've never heard of this as a major factor in stagflation, but I can't imagine how an economy could have handled that level of minimum wage without stagflation. Are there studies on that? Adjusted for median wages, instead of for inflation, minimum wage in the late 60′s & early 70′s would have been similar to something like $15 an hour in today’s economy. I’ve never heard of this as a major factor in stagflation, but I can’t imagine how an economy could have handled that level of minimum wage without stagflation. Are there studies on that?

]]> By: kebko http://cafehayek.com/2009/10/prices-are-signals-and-the-truth-of-the-message-isnt-changed-by-distorting-the-signal.html/comment-page-1#comment-186757 kebko Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:09:00 +0000 http://cafehayek.com/?p=6961#comment-186757 Adjusted for median wages, instead of for inflation, minimum wage in the late 60's & early 70's would have been similar to something like $15 an hour in today's economy. I've never heard of this as a major factor in stagflation, but I can't imagine how an economy could have handled that level of minimum wage without stagflation. Are there studies on that? Adjusted for median wages, instead of for inflation, minimum wage in the late 60′s & early 70′s would have been similar to something like $15 an hour in today’s economy. I’ve never heard of this as a major factor in stagflation, but I can’t imagine how an economy could have handled that level of minimum wage without stagflation. Are there studies on that?

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