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	<title>Comments on: Did the stimulus work?</title>
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	<description>where orders emerge</description>
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		<title>By: mesaeconoguy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188806</link>
		<dc:creator>mesaeconoguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188806</guid>
		<description>Yeah, no shit, eh?  If the stimulus was working, we wouldn’t have 9.8% (going to 10+ shortly) unemployment now, would we?Please stop talking until you have remedied your acute cranial-rectal insertion problem.

Muchas gracias.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, no shit, eh?  If the stimulus was working, we wouldn’t have 9.8% (going to 10+ shortly) unemployment now, would we?Please stop talking until you have remedied your acute cranial-rectal insertion problem.</p>
<p>Muchas gracias.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188785</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188785</guid>
		<description>Someone suggested a website called http://www.Dearpolitician.org to write our politicians. I was intrigued by the name and had to check it out. I am very impressed with what the makers of the site did. They completely automated the process of writing our politicians about the issues that are near and dear to our hearts (like abortion). you can write the President, Vice President, Senators, Congressman, complete Senate and Congressional committees, and your Governors. After choosing the President, Vice President, my Senators, Congressman, and a Congressional committee, the number of people getting my letter were 42. The great thing that I haven’t found on any other site, is that they will deliver your letter for you to each of their offices for FREE. The site is completely free and non-partisan. This site can prove to be a very powerful tool for us to utilize to get the message across about the issues that we continue to drill into their heads. Join me in writing our politicians about faith, abortion, and the right to free speech. Let’s work together to get our message to them. Spread the word to our fellow Catholics. God Bless</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone suggested a website called <a href="http://www.Dearpolitician.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.Dearpolitician.org</a> to write our politicians. I was intrigued by the name and had to check it out. I am very impressed with what the makers of the site did. They completely automated the process of writing our politicians about the issues that are near and dear to our hearts (like abortion). you can write the President, Vice President, Senators, Congressman, complete Senate and Congressional committees, and your Governors. After choosing the President, Vice President, my Senators, Congressman, and a Congressional committee, the number of people getting my letter were 42. The great thing that I haven’t found on any other site, is that they will deliver your letter for you to each of their offices for FREE. The site is completely free and non-partisan. This site can prove to be a very powerful tool for us to utilize to get the message across about the issues that we continue to drill into their heads. Join me in writing our politicians about faith, abortion, and the right to free speech. Let’s work together to get our message to them. Spread the word to our fellow Catholics. God Bless</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188664</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188664</guid>
		<description>You don&#039;t have to read past the subtitle to not take this guy seriously.

What the hell does he think &quot;jobs created or saved&quot; is if not net employment change.  The point is it&#039;s a net change from the counterfactual.  Net change from last quarter isn&#039;t entirely uninteresting, but it&#039;s meaningless in interpreting the impact of a policy.  Any economist could tell you that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t have to read past the subtitle to not take this guy seriously.</p>
<p>What the hell does he think &#8220;jobs created or saved&#8221; is if not net employment change.  The point is it&#8217;s a net change from the counterfactual.  Net change from last quarter isn&#8217;t entirely uninteresting, but it&#8217;s meaningless in interpreting the impact of a policy.  Any economist could tell you that.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188663</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188663</guid>
		<description>Not especially expansionary for two reasons:

1. The recently inaugurated policy of paying interest on reserves changes the relationship between increased reserve levels and the money supply.  In other words, what you&#039;re seeing is a huge increase in M1, but the rate at which it gets out into the economy increased dramatically since I think it was last October when they started paying interest.  People are still looking at M1 stats with a pre-2008 mindset.  Other central banks have always done this.

2. People disagree on the correct inflation targeting rules, but none of the rules floating around out there say that what the Fed is doing now is particularly expansionary, because the output gap is so high and inflation is so low.

I should ask you - why do you think increasing reserves and low rates necessarily make for an expansionary policy?  The economy is not a static thing.  What may have been an expansionary rate or reserve level in 2005 may not be expansionary today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not especially expansionary for two reasons:</p>
<p>1. The recently inaugurated policy of paying interest on reserves changes the relationship between increased reserve levels and the money supply.  In other words, what you&#8217;re seeing is a huge increase in M1, but the rate at which it gets out into the economy increased dramatically since I think it was last October when they started paying interest.  People are still looking at M1 stats with a pre-2008 mindset.  Other central banks have always done this.</p>
<p>2. People disagree on the correct inflation targeting rules, but none of the rules floating around out there say that what the Fed is doing now is particularly expansionary, because the output gap is so high and inflation is so low.</p>
<p>I should ask you &#8211; why do you think increasing reserves and low rates necessarily make for an expansionary policy?  The economy is not a static thing.  What may have been an expansionary rate or reserve level in 2005 may not be expansionary today.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188623</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188623</guid>
		<description>Ed Lazear? An economist?

Here he is May of 2 thousand and fricking 8 still prediciting no recession.

WSJ
MAY 8, 2008, 6:15 A.M. ET Lazear Sees No Recession for U.S. Economy 


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121019473822674751.html

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed Lazear? An economist?</p>
<p>Here he is May of 2 thousand and fricking 8 still prediciting no recession.</p>
<p>WSJ<br />
MAY 8, 2008, 6:15 A.M. ET Lazear Sees No Recession for U.S. Economy </p>
<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121019473822674751.html" rel="nofollow">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121019473822674751.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Justin P</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188620</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188620</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve still a long way to go to turn around 70 years of Keynes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve still a long way to go to turn around 70 years of Keynes.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188615</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188615</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure there&#039;s a tipping point as much as a gradual and possibly inevitable progression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure there&#8217;s a tipping point as much as a gradual and possibly inevitable progression.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin P</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188614</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188614</guid>
		<description>What would you call the massive amounts of money the Fed is pumping into the banking system right now then? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would you call the massive amounts of money the Fed is pumping into the banking system right now then?</p>
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		<title>By: Justin P</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188612</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188612</guid>
		<description>&quot;Government spending was a negative factor, subtracting 0.9 percentage points from the change in GDP growth.&quot;

Hmm, who would have thought? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Government spending was a negative factor, subtracting 0.9 percentage points from the change in GDP growth.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmm, who would have thought?</p>
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		<title>By: Zephyr</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188611</link>
		<dc:creator>Zephyr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188611</guid>
		<description>Even though we are down from the peak, we are ahead of where we were 30 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though we are down from the peak, we are ahead of where we were 30 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: mesaeconoguy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188607</link>
		<dc:creator>mesaeconoguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188607</guid>
		<description>Here’s Ed Lazear (an actual economist, compared to Krugman, or whoever else you&#039;re parroting this minute) talking about this in today’s WSJ:&lt;a href=&quot;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703932904574509341078005538.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stimulus and the Jobless Recovery&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here’s Ed Lazear (an actual economist, compared to Krugman, or whoever else you&#8217;re parroting this minute) talking about this in today’s WSJ:<a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703932904574509341078005538.html" rel="nofollow">Stimulus and the Jobless Recovery</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188592</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188592</guid>
		<description>Sure the stimulus works. That&#039;s why the economy is &quot;recovering.&quot; The problem is like when the starter motor is trying to start a car that has no gas.

http://www.freetochoosemedia.org/production/POC/presskit2/milton-president-reagan.jpg

The libertarian economic ideology foisted on our economy these last 30 years has sucked it dry. We&#039;re trying to crank an engine with no gas. All the money is on top or in off shore accounts. The big spenders, (ie the middle class) have been sucked dry and can&#039;t pick up demand Uncle Sam is trying to stimulate.

We&#039;ve still a long way to go to turn around 30 years of Milton.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure the stimulus works. That&#8217;s why the economy is &#8220;recovering.&#8221; The problem is like when the starter motor is trying to start a car that has no gas.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.freetochoosemedia.org/production/POC/presskit2/milton-president-reagan.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.freetochoosemedia.org/production/POC/presskit2/milton-president-reagan.jpg</a></p>
<p>The libertarian economic ideology foisted on our economy these last 30 years has sucked it dry. We&#8217;re trying to crank an engine with no gas. All the money is on top or in off shore accounts. The big spenders, (ie the middle class) have been sucked dry and can&#8217;t pick up demand Uncle Sam is trying to stimulate.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve still a long way to go to turn around 30 years of Milton.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188522</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188522</guid>
		<description>I guess there&#039;s no point in trying to explain to muirdog the sheer lunacy of taking money from the private sector and giving it back in dribs and drabs as a way of breaking a market stall. It&#039;s counter intuitive and totally compatible with socialism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess there&#8217;s no point in trying to explain to muirdog the sheer lunacy of taking money from the private sector and giving it back in dribs and drabs as a way of breaking a market stall. It&#8217;s counter intuitive and totally compatible with socialism.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Scott</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188521</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188521</guid>
		<description>So the market works the same as an Internal Combustion Engine?

Why not an electric motor?  Or a paddle wheel?  Maybe like a space rocket?

Fast recovery? Like the one in Germany?  Where the conservative German government was lambasted for not spending enough?  Or maybe you mean fast recovery like in Spain where unemployment is over 17% still?

Crock of shit, through and through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the market works the same as an Internal Combustion Engine?</p>
<p>Why not an electric motor?  Or a paddle wheel?  Maybe like a space rocket?</p>
<p>Fast recovery? Like the one in Germany?  Where the conservative German government was lambasted for not spending enough?  Or maybe you mean fast recovery like in Spain where unemployment is over 17% still?</p>
<p>Crock of shit, through and through.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188519</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188519</guid>
		<description>The argument is that markets like engines, when &quot;stalled&quot;,  work better with a &quot;kick start&quot;. That&#039;s all the stimulus is meant to do. It makes sense and the evidence suggest indeed it does work. 

Not only here but in Europe where the stimulus is built into their social safety net and they are seeing a faster recovery then us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The argument is that markets like engines, when &#8220;stalled&#8221;,  work better with a &#8220;kick start&#8221;. That&#8217;s all the stimulus is meant to do. It makes sense and the evidence suggest indeed it does work. </p>
<p>Not only here but in Europe where the stimulus is built into their social safety net and they are seeing a faster recovery then us.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188515</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188515</guid>
		<description>Another interesting question is what is the tipping point that government economy takes over the private economy? It seems we are very close to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another interesting question is what is the tipping point that government economy takes over the private economy? It seems we are very close to that.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188514</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188514</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The crucial question is whether a large increase in government spending financed with borrowed money that swells the deficit to $1.4 trillion is good for confidence or bad for it. No one knows the answer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;I know the answer in my case. I&#039;d be a lot more confident right now if my next project weren&#039;t a &quot;stimulus&quot; project, and I&#039;m confident regardless only because I believe the project would exist regardless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The crucial question is whether a large increase in government spending financed with borrowed money that swells the deficit to $1.4 trillion is good for confidence or bad for it. No one knows the answer.</p></blockquote>
<p>I know the answer in my case. I&#8217;d be a lot more confident right now if my next project weren&#8217;t a &#8220;stimulus&#8221; project, and I&#8217;m confident regardless only because I believe the project would exist regardless.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188510</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188510</guid>
		<description>Depends on how do you define &quot;worked&quot;. If you want the power of government increased, then ANY stimulus is good. If you are in favor of free markets, then this stimulus was of no use. Just shuffling money around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends on how do you define &#8220;worked&#8221;. If you want the power of government increased, then ANY stimulus is good. If you are in favor of free markets, then this stimulus was of no use. Just shuffling money around.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188406</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188406</guid>
		<description>While I&#039;d agree with Jeff Miron that the Fed did quite a bit of the work, he seems to be forgetting his Milton Friedman: 

&quot;After the US experience during the Great Depression, and after inflation and rising interest rates in the 1970s and disinflation and falling interest rates in the 1980s, I thought the fallacy of identifying tight money with high interest rates and easy money with low interest rates was dead. Apparently, old fallacies never die&quot;

I&#039;m not sure where Miron gets the idea that monetary policy especially expansionary right now.  The argument I&#039;ve been hearing is over whether it is still too tight or whether it is just right.  I haven&#039;t heard &quot;highly expansionary&quot; before - with the possible exception of mises.org.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;d agree with Jeff Miron that the Fed did quite a bit of the work, he seems to be forgetting his Milton Friedman: </p>
<p>&#8220;After the US experience during the Great Depression, and after inflation and rising interest rates in the 1970s and disinflation and falling interest rates in the 1980s, I thought the fallacy of identifying tight money with high interest rates and easy money with low interest rates was dead. Apparently, old fallacies never die&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure where Miron gets the idea that monetary policy especially expansionary right now.  The argument I&#8217;ve been hearing is over whether it is still too tight or whether it is just right.  I haven&#8217;t heard &#8220;highly expansionary&#8221; before &#8211; with the possible exception of mises.org.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Lvov</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/did-the-stimulus-work.html/comment-page-1#comment-188405</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Lvov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7126#comment-188405</guid>
		<description>The best argument certainly belongs to Simon Johnson: Stimulus plan is appropriate because it has &quot;...enabled President Obama ... bringing along ... appropriate stimulus...&quot; A beauty!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best argument certainly belongs to Simon Johnson: Stimulus plan is appropriate because it has &#8220;&#8230;enabled President Obama &#8230; bringing along &#8230; appropriate stimulus&#8230;&#8221; A beauty!</p>
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