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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s Not Sunlight at the End of the Tunnel that You See</title>
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	<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html</link>
	<description>where orders emerge</description>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191554</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191554</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;The U.S. has a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners who cannot just strike.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Understood.  But let&#039;s face it, the modern political process doesn&#039;t work for entrepreneurs.  If they&#039;re not willing to make a stand, not even a stand alongside the employees who support them, not even a short amount of down time to make a point, then they will deserve the consequences.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;The U.S. has a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners who cannot just strike.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Understood.  But let&#8217;s face it, the modern political process doesn&#8217;t work for entrepreneurs.  If they&#8217;re not willing to make a stand, not even a stand alongside the employees who support them, not even a short amount of down time to make a point, then they will deserve the consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191535</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191535</guid>
		<description>Randy,

Strikes are easy when everyone is an employee.  The U.S. has a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners who cannot just strike. By the time the Poles struck, they had been beaten down for generations.  Property rights didn&#039;t exist and they had been living in a hard tyranny for decades. And even then, Poland is and was a smaller country.

Collusion is virtually impossible to achieve.  Just try getting hundreds of millions of people to do one thing at the same time at great expense to themselves.  Personally, I can&#039;t strike without permanently shutting down my business and firing everyone who works for me because I have legal obligations to a national exchange that I must meet every single day.  How many other business owners have contractual obligations they must fulfill?  How many people would destroy their lives for a day of protest?  In  the Eastern bloc, lives were already in shambles.  There were no entrepreneurs who would lose their businesses.  There was nothing left to lose.  

I think you have a rather more romantic view of this struggle than is warranted.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randy,</p>
<p>Strikes are easy when everyone is an employee.  The U.S. has a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners who cannot just strike. By the time the Poles struck, they had been beaten down for generations.  Property rights didn&#8217;t exist and they had been living in a hard tyranny for decades. And even then, Poland is and was a smaller country.</p>
<p>Collusion is virtually impossible to achieve.  Just try getting hundreds of millions of people to do one thing at the same time at great expense to themselves.  Personally, I can&#8217;t strike without permanently shutting down my business and firing everyone who works for me because I have legal obligations to a national exchange that I must meet every single day.  How many other business owners have contractual obligations they must fulfill?  How many people would destroy their lives for a day of protest?  In  the Eastern bloc, lives were already in shambles.  There were no entrepreneurs who would lose their businesses.  There was nothing left to lose.  </p>
<p>I think you have a rather more romantic view of this struggle than is warranted.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191519</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191519</guid>
		<description>Solidarity.  But in the US it will have to be much bigger, like nearly everyone who earns an honest living going on strike for days, weeks, maybe even months.  And the only way that it can be done peacefully is to do it before the fascists drive us over the cliff.  We have an election next year.  If it doesn&#039;t work (and it won&#039;t), strike, immediately.  November 3, 2010.  Start planning for it now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Solidarity.  But in the US it will have to be much bigger, like nearly everyone who earns an honest living going on strike for days, weeks, maybe even months.  And the only way that it can be done peacefully is to do it before the fascists drive us over the cliff.  We have an election next year.  If it doesn&#8217;t work (and it won&#8217;t), strike, immediately.  November 3, 2010.  Start planning for it now.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191491</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191491</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s more pathetic about Krugman is that he thinks he&#039;s the ring leader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s more pathetic about Krugman is that he thinks he&#8217;s the ring leader.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191468</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191468</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s more than one way to boil a frog.  If you turn up the heat, remember to close the lid!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s more than one way to boil a frog.  If you turn up the heat, remember to close the lid!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191466</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191466</guid>
		<description>Followed by Krugman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Followed by Krugman.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191465</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191465</guid>
		<description>(recently they&#039;ve turned up the heat, but they&#039;re trying to close the lid).

LOL!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(recently they&#8217;ve turned up the heat, but they&#8217;re trying to close the lid).</p>
<p>LOL!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191464</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191464</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;A productive class consciousness - Ayn Rand style. Its been done. It can work.&lt;/i&gt;

where has this been done?  I&#039;m not necessarily disagreeing that it has, I just can&#039;t think of where.

I&#039;m pretty sure the political class is already giving slavery a try now.  They&#039;re boiling the frog slowly (recently they&#039;ve turned up the heat, but they&#039;re trying to close the lid).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A productive class consciousness &#8211; Ayn Rand style. Its been done. It can work.</i></p>
<p>where has this been done?  I&#8217;m not necessarily disagreeing that it has, I just can&#8217;t think of where.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure the political class is already giving slavery a try now.  They&#8217;re boiling the frog slowly (recently they&#8217;ve turned up the heat, but they&#8217;re trying to close the lid).</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191372</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191372</guid>
		<description>I have no doubt that it could get really rough.  I&#039;ve studied Soviet history.  And I have no doubt that our own political class will be more than willing to give slavery a try after they destroy the markets.  Personally, I&#039;m hoping to see a strike movement.  Start with a day, then a week, then a month.  Hit &#039;em where it hurts.  But the first step in accomplishing this is to develop a new class consciousness.  A productive class consciousness - Ayn Rand style.  Its been done.  It can work.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no doubt that it could get really rough.  I&#8217;ve studied Soviet history.  And I have no doubt that our own political class will be more than willing to give slavery a try after they destroy the markets.  Personally, I&#8217;m hoping to see a strike movement.  Start with a day, then a week, then a month.  Hit &#8216;em where it hurts.  But the first step in accomplishing this is to develop a new class consciousness.  A productive class consciousness &#8211; Ayn Rand style.  Its been done.  It can work.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191364</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191364</guid>
		<description>Okay, Randy.  But, even if socialism doesn&#039;t work, everyone will suffer because if you work like a dog, your earnings will be taxed away.  If you don&#039;t work, you won&#039;t get anything because there&#039;s nobody willing to work to pay for it.  So, you will have no way to improve your lot in life.

leaving the country won&#039;t help you either.  Besides North Korea, the U.S. is the only country that taxes based on citizenship rather than on residency.   Giving up your U.S. citizenship can be as difficult as giving up a Soviet citizenship.  We&#039;re already a soft tyranny.  It&#039;s a small jump to a hard tyranny.  A hard tyranny can last forever.  If you think it&#039;s bad now, just wait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, Randy.  But, even if socialism doesn&#8217;t work, everyone will suffer because if you work like a dog, your earnings will be taxed away.  If you don&#8217;t work, you won&#8217;t get anything because there&#8217;s nobody willing to work to pay for it.  So, you will have no way to improve your lot in life.</p>
<p>leaving the country won&#8217;t help you either.  Besides North Korea, the U.S. is the only country that taxes based on citizenship rather than on residency.   Giving up your U.S. citizenship can be as difficult as giving up a Soviet citizenship.  We&#8217;re already a soft tyranny.  It&#8217;s a small jump to a hard tyranny.  A hard tyranny can last forever.  If you think it&#8217;s bad now, just wait.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191351</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191351</guid>
		<description>Well, what I see happening is that the entitlement programs, while still in effect, will become meaningless.  Because when everyone is entitled, no one is entitled.  Yes, you have Social Security, but with hyper inflation it won&#039;t even put a roof over your head.  Yes, you have medicare, but there are no providers within a 200 mile radius, or none that will see you without waiting for months.  Yes, you have a right to work, but with all the punitive legislation focused on employers, no one is going to employ you.  So for many, its going to be pretty damn catastrophic. 

Re; Fascism; Have been since WWI, and arguably since the Civil War.
Re; Socialism; Irrelevant, as it doesn&#039;t really work.  Never has, never will.
Re; The Constitution; Is Propaganda.  Has been since day one.  The &quot;Rule of Law&quot; is shorthand for the &quot;Rule of Those Who Write the Laws&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, what I see happening is that the entitlement programs, while still in effect, will become meaningless.  Because when everyone is entitled, no one is entitled.  Yes, you have Social Security, but with hyper inflation it won&#8217;t even put a roof over your head.  Yes, you have medicare, but there are no providers within a 200 mile radius, or none that will see you without waiting for months.  Yes, you have a right to work, but with all the punitive legislation focused on employers, no one is going to employ you.  So for many, its going to be pretty damn catastrophic. </p>
<p>Re; Fascism; Have been since WWI, and arguably since the Civil War.<br />
Re; Socialism; Irrelevant, as it doesn&#8217;t really work.  Never has, never will.<br />
Re; The Constitution; Is Propaganda.  Has been since day one.  The &#8220;Rule of Law&#8221; is shorthand for the &#8220;Rule of Those Who Write the Laws&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191339</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191339</guid>
		<description>I prefer libertine to the other available options in California.  I heard we was a Randian fellow (not to be mistaken for rand:).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer libertine to the other available options in California.  I heard we was a Randian fellow (not to be mistaken for rand:).</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191340</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191340</guid>
		<description>that is, &quot;randy&quot;.  Oy.  Monday am never good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that is, &#8220;randy&#8221;.  Oy.  Monday am never good.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191337</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191337</guid>
		<description>No, we&#039;re not on the verge of catastrophic failure.  Failure, yes.  Catastrophic, no.

What I meant is that we&#039;ll be past the tipping point of socialism and fascism.  If this legislation passes, it pretty much renders the constitution moot.  There will be no hard, sharp lesson (the sort that whacked us in the 70&#039;s) from which we&#039;ll recover.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, we&#8217;re not on the verge of catastrophic failure.  Failure, yes.  Catastrophic, no.</p>
<p>What I meant is that we&#8217;ll be past the tipping point of socialism and fascism.  If this legislation passes, it pretty much renders the constitution moot.  There will be no hard, sharp lesson (the sort that whacked us in the 70&#8242;s) from which we&#8217;ll recover.</p>
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		<title>By: muirgeo</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191334</link>
		<dc:creator>muirgeo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191334</guid>
		<description>Actually it explains how people like you are giving up your freedoms and quality of life to allow an elite minority even more power and control over your life. And the very process involves convincing people like you to defend these wealthy elites in the name of liberty. 

Basically you are arguing to go back to the days where you work a 12 hour day, a seven day week, no work place safety standards, no right of dissent and have no other options. You are ignorant of history and you are impressionable and they know that. They&#039;ve convinced you that you are a defender of liberty as you drive down their privately owned roads to serfdom.

You think you fight the good fight but if you are a typical middle class working person you&#039;re selling off your childrens future to be controlled by wealthy elites. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually it explains how people like you are giving up your freedoms and quality of life to allow an elite minority even more power and control over your life. And the very process involves convincing people like you to defend these wealthy elites in the name of liberty. </p>
<p>Basically you are arguing to go back to the days where you work a 12 hour day, a seven day week, no work place safety standards, no right of dissent and have no other options. You are ignorant of history and you are impressionable and they know that. They&#8217;ve convinced you that you are a defender of liberty as you drive down their privately owned roads to serfdom.</p>
<p>You think you fight the good fight but if you are a typical middle class working person you&#8217;re selling off your childrens future to be controlled by wealthy elites.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191329</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191329</guid>
		<description>Past the tipping point.  Exactly.  The tradition of entitlement is only 80 years old, and it is already on the verge of catastrophic failure.  
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Past the tipping point.  Exactly.  The tradition of entitlement is only 80 years old, and it is already on the verge of catastrophic failure.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191310</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191310</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Predator State&quot; is a great title for a guy like you, who want&#039;s regulated freedom and thinks that&#039;s what we&#039;ve had and that it was going really really well  UNTIL  RECENTLY!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHA

More-dork!!  

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Predator State&#8221; is a great title for a guy like you, who want&#8217;s regulated freedom and thinks that&#8217;s what we&#8217;ve had and that it was going really really well  UNTIL  RECENTLY!!!</p>
<p>HAHAHAHAHAHA</p>
<p>More-dork!!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191309</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191309</guid>
		<description>&quot;We&#039;ve followed Koch Family&#039;s (Cato&#039;s) recipe for economic development ever since Reagan and here we are&quot;

Wow, this Muirdork thing shouldn&#039;t be taken seriously.  He spends too much time with Barney Frank.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We&#8217;ve followed Koch Family&#8217;s (Cato&#8217;s) recipe for economic development ever since Reagan and here we are&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow, this Muirdork thing shouldn&#8217;t be taken seriously.  He spends too much time with Barney Frank.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191297</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191297</guid>
		<description>Hugh Heffner is a libertine billionaire, Ms Methinks, but you were close. :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugh Heffner is a libertine billionaire, Ms Methinks, but you were close. <img src='http://cafehayek.com/site/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Methinks</title>
		<link>http://cafehayek.com/2009/11/its-not-sunlight-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-that-you-see.html/comment-page-1#comment-191281</link>
		<dc:creator>Methinks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cafehayek.com/?p=7337#comment-191281</guid>
		<description>that sounds like a good plan.  

I&#039;m completely depressed about what&#039;s going on.  Libertarians are losing the culture war.  However, if libertarian beliefs are part of your core fabric, then you have to strive to find a place you can be free.  Would you really be less miserable for the next 80 years if you threw in the towel and joined in something you knew to be wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that sounds like a good plan.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m completely depressed about what&#8217;s going on.  Libertarians are losing the culture war.  However, if libertarian beliefs are part of your core fabric, then you have to strive to find a place you can be free.  Would you really be less miserable for the next 80 years if you threw in the towel and joined in something you knew to be wrong?</p>
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