I tend to think of it as the political versus the productive, but yeah, same basic idea. The problem is that the political types will always rule for the simple reason that being political (exploitation and manipulation) is what they are good at. The productive class is good only at being productive. So, generally speaking, we're screwed. But I think that maybe we could try a strike. The politicians really are dependant on us. They won't admit it, of course, but they are. It worked against the Soviet Union and it might work here too.

P.S. Government isn't the answer, its the problem. Government is just a gathering place for those who exploit and manipulate.

The problem with your statement that government is the only check is that it wasn't. That has nothing to do with Bush II being in power and not Obama or Clinton. It has nothing to do with innovative financial practices which weren't sound. The regulatory agencies in place never had the expertise or processes to evaluate them and they can't. Nor do they have the power to shape incentive like a Barney Frank has. It's simply an information problem. Read your Hayek.

Government is the only check on these type of people. Not more government but effective government that represents the needs of the people.

The fight never changes its always the wealthy elite and powerful against the masses of people simply trying to make a good living.

I say end the SEC, end the Fed, stop the Treasury from perpetrating the current garbage and bring on the free banking and truly open markets. Markets where, if you fail, no one bails you out– leaving other people, who acted prudently, will rise up to take your place. The market is supposed to be a profit and loss system. What's currently in place is a system where the only people that lose are the consumers and taxpayers.

Robert Wenzel from Ecnoomic Policy journal posted an interesting list recently:

“The Latest List of Goldman Player's Now in (or recently in) Government

Treasury Secretary under Bill Clinton (Robert Rubin)

Treasury Secretary under George Bush (Hank Paulson)

Current president and former chairman of the New York Federal Reserve (William Dudley and Stephen Friedman)

Chief of Staff to current Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner (Mark Patterson)

Chief of Staff under President Bush (Joshua Bolten)

Economic adviser to the Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton (Robert Hormats)

Chairman of the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission (Gary Gensler)

Under-Secretary of State for Economic, Business, and Agricultural affairs under President Bush (Reuben Jeffery)

The past and current heads of the New York Stock Exchange (John Thain and Duncan Niederauer)

The chief operating officer of the Securities and Exchange Commission’s enforcement division (Adam Storch)

Goldman’s new top lobbyist in Washington, Michael Paese, used to work for Barney Frank, the congressman who chairs the House Financial Services Committee.

In London, Goldman's former chief economist and partner, Gavyn Davies, is married to Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s special adviser Sue Nye. Under Tony Blair, Davies became chairman of the BBC.

His successor as chief economist at Goldman, the late David Walton, was handed a seat on the Bank of England’s interest-rate setting Monetary Policy Committee.

Paul Deighton, who is running the London Olympic Games organising committee, used to be Goldman’s chief operating officer.

Obama’s top economic adviser Larry Summers never worked directly for Goldman, but served in Clinton’s government under his mentor, Goldmanite Robert Rubin, and Goldman paid Summers $135,000 to appear at a one-day speaking event in 2008 before Barack Obama came to power

Goldmanite Mark Carney is governor of the Bank of Canada.

Robert Zoellick, head of the World Bank, was a managing director and chairman of the Goldman's International Advisors department.

Neel Kashkari Treasury Interim Assistant Secretary for Financial Stability, during the Hank Paulson period at Treasury, is a former Goldman Sachs man.

The ultimate global inside operator is Mario Draghi From 2002 to 2005, he was vice chairman and managing director of Goldman Sachs International and a member of the firm-wide management committee. He is governor of the Bank of Italy. In this capacity, he is a member of the Governing and General Councils of the European Central Bank and a member of the Board of Directors of the Bank for International Settlements.

He is also governor for Italy on the Boards of Governors of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development and the Asian Development Bank. In April 2006 he was elected Chairman of the very powerful Financial Stability Forum, which became Financial Stability Board in spring 2009.”

If someone breaks into my house while I'm baking brownies and forces me to put a teeny-tiny bit of poop in the brownies, is it fair to say “the brownie system” is the problem? No. It is the mix of systems that is the problem. The poop would actually do some good in another context- just as there as very specific, very limited, proper functions for government.

My challenge to the government apologists is this; try a mental experiment where we get to have all the capitalism in one part of the country, and you get to keep all the government. We would have to do without the protections of basic government functions- we'd make due with our best approximations. You would have to do without the productive capital and PPE- getting by with your best approximations.

I don't see how anyone sane thinks the all government side of the fence would last very long. Inherently, government can't survive without something to leech off of.

Now, radical idea: Try a capitalist system with the limited functions of government ensuring individual rights by punishing initiation of violence, and enforcing contracts, with only the leeching minimally required to do so. Win.

Exactly. Russ' conclusion is a powerful one because it can be read by the less careful reader as an endorsement of the kinds of things George likes: regulation, government intervention, etc. But a closer look shows that Russ recognizes that when there is a concentration of power and wealth like government that does not have to be responsible to the truths dictated by the market except in the very long term “life of a nation” sense, the lure of power and basically free money draws a lot of looters in like fireflies to streetlight.

It should be no surprise that Wall Street's best friends are politicians like Barney Frank, who on the surface seem obviously unfriendly to their interests, but in actuality, provide very inexpensive cover for the looting. Play our way, lend to our constituencies, and when things go bad, we'll put up the money to bail you out. Not just your firms, but your lavish bonuses too. And we can even make it look like punishment. Skip those 7 figure bonuses for a couple of years or cut them in half — they'll be there when this washes over.