Can I Start at Quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers?

by Don Boudreaux on August 10, 2006

in Trade

I share Greg Mankiw’s concern that a major U.S. political party seems to be sinking more deeply into the abyss of protectionism.  The specific incident that sparked Mankiw to express his concern is Ned Lamont’s position on trade (as expressed on Lamont’s website).  You can read the entire statement — it’s not long — also in Mankiw’s blog-post.  Here’s the part of the statement, though, that I want to comment on:

Many of our high-skill jobs are being sent overseas, drawn by low wages and no benefits.

Lamont’s assertion is widely believed, but the evidence for it is scant.

Seems like an obvious point, but it’s worth repeating that low worker compensation (wages and benefits) is not sufficient to attract employers.  If you doubt this fact, ask yourself what the Atlanta Braves would tell me if I offered to play shortstop for that Major League baseball team at only one-tenth of the salary of its current starting shortstop.  I doubt that team officials would say "What a deal!  You’re hired, buddy.  How can we turn down this opportunity to lower our labor costs?!"

Silly example, you might say.  Perhaps (although I think it not to be as silly as it might strike many people).  So let’s revisit some well-known facts about current patterns of global commerce.  (Well-known, that is, to people who care to know about such things — a group that seldom includes politicians.)  If relative wages and benefits were the chief driver of business investment decisions — the chief determinant of where businesses set up shop and close down shop; where businesses expand production and where they decrease production — then low-wage countries would be raking in capital.

But they’re not.  Consider this passage from Martin Wolf’s fabulous book Why Globalization Works:

Labour representatives in high-income countries, notably the US, have also made much of the argument that the export of capital harms them, by forcing them to accept lower wages or lose their jobs.  To this Edward Graham responds that most investment goes to other high-income countries, many of which have wages close to — or even higher than — those in the US.  Eighty per cent of the stock of US investment abroad in 1997 was located in other high-income countries.  Most investment abroad is not particularly labour-intensive, for precisely this reason.  It is true that investment in developing countries is relatively labour-intensive.  But that still does not mean jobs are lost.  This is partly because, as a matter of logic, there is no connection between these microeconomic changes and overall employment.  But it is also the case that US direct investment and exports tend to be complementary — the more there is of the former, the more there is of the latter.  Thus, as one might expect, investment abroad simultaneously destroys and creates jobs.  But Graham concludes that ‘this analysis provides no reason to believe that outward FDI [foreign direct investment] either creates or destroys jobs on a net basis.  On the other hand, there seems lilttle question that FDI can contribute to a redistribution of jobs among activities.  But generally, this redistribution is from the lower-paying to higher-paid jobs.  That, of course, is good news for US workers as a group’ [pp. 242-243].

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  • matt

    I thought you were "trying to look further down the road." But presumably not so far to encounter the death thing you mentioned.

    Anyway, I am still not sure what the problem is. I gather from your posts that there is a problem. Will you please spell it out? And offer a solution? Thanks.

  • RP

    Hmmm....well matt, I guess you didn't have any layoffs in your industry over the last 5 years eh? I have plenty of friends who would love to be rehired, yet many (not all) cannot compete with global labor prices (a few folks have really unique experiences, and are senior enough to manage a growing global team).


    So, if you don't count laying off people in the US during the downswing, then rehiring outside the US during the...ahem...recovery period...well, I guess I have no solid evidence then. Whatever you do, do NOT look at where all the new R&D centers are being built (Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, IBM, ...), ok? Wouldn't want to cloud your thinking with any readily available evidence.


    But I get your point - you all think the economy is going to grow enough (and in the right way) to provide new opportunities for the displaced. Yeah, and in the long run we're all dead.

  • matt

    RP,


    You did not give solid evidence that lost high-wage jobs (here) are replaced overwhelmingly only with low-wage jobs (somewhere not here). And you're one bit of evidence, if we choose to call it that, didn't give evidence of job loss--just job creation in India. In fact, you said you are hiring in the US, albeit fewer numbers. Sorry, I missed the evidence, I missed whatever problem you say there is and I missed what solution you gave about whatever problem I hope you'll tell us there is.

  • RP

    Mike - sure, you and I can come up with employers who "use the savings to promote other folks into management". But who does your company plan to promote next time? I presume the junior folks that were hired in Mumbai, since your entry positions are clearly where you grow management talent, and you are going to run out of local analysts if you keep this up.


    I grant you the cost savings.

    I grant that protectionism is "bad".


    I grant that these folks are just as smart, and just


    as deserving of work as anyone.


    You might be suprised to also know that I'm doing quite well, mostly because I'm senior enough to get promoted to manage the globalized work force. This isn't hurting me directly. But I know


    where I go to hire new talent, so you are looking at immediate consequences while I'm trying to look further down the road.


    The developing world cannot maintain a focus on displacing developed world employees (also know as developed world consumers, and entry level employees) at a small fraction of the developed world cost, without eventually killing the developed world customer base they are attempting to serve. If the economy goes into recession, how many bond analysts do you think Mumbai will need for local use? And displaced developed world workers are supposed to do *what* exactly - start producing developing world products with a developed world overhead? Or maybe immigrate to India to eliminate the developed world costs, thus allowing them to compete on skill instead of cost (labor cost + overhead costs). Ignoring all this is going to create one heck of a generational conflict.

  • happyjuggler0

    Thanks Mike for the example. Too many people can't seem to grasp the fact that cost savings from outsourcing or free trade will get spent on *something*, and that that something is usually going to be local.

  • Mike

    RP,


    I really think you need to step back and think about what the benefits of your company's outsourcing jobs to India are. My former company, a large and well known bond rating agency, for example just "outsourced" some high skill jobs to bright people in Mumbai. These were jobs that tracked data on a variety of companies and money funds that we rated - and the role of the workers was to alert us directors when various indicators were reached. The job entailed a little bit more than that, but you get the point. In the US, the people we hired in that position were paid roughly $40,000 plus benefits - and we had two people doing it. We were able to hire 3 people in India to do the same work for about 1/3 of the cost.


    So, have we lost these high skill, high wage jobs? Uh, no.


    Why? Well, with the net savings of over $65,000 we promoted one of the two former analysts into a research/managerial position and we have seen our coverage of companies double in the past two years - allowing us to hire one more assistant director (salary $80k) and one more research associate (salary $50k). We are now looking for secretarial help as well.


    Don is absolutely right that there is scant evidence that we are losing high skill jobs overseas - and even if we are, we are creating even more opportunities here.


    Why must you be as dogmatic as you claim Don to be? The entire record of human history shows that no nation has ever been harmed by trade - and it doesn't matter what form that trade takes.

  • RP

    Let me grant you that all rational people should easily conclude

    that protectionism, all else equal, is "bad". It's bad even when all else is not equal - ok?


    Now....ask yourself....what must be happening TODAY, that would make protectionism a viable political tool? Then ask yourself how you will feel if we get protectionism because we were too busy waiting for more evidence before acting on today's problems.

    Not every barn door must remain open awaiting a published


    study of horses who have already left, must it?

  • RP

    Don - how many of my co-workers would you like to have a conference call with....I hope you don't mind being up late, because over half are in India. Bright folks too. We hire double digits outside the US now, for every few we hire within the US, and I'm not objecting to that at all, so don't misunderstand me. The India team is living on 1/5th of a US salary, but that goes further in Mumbai, Bangalore, and Chennai than a full US salary does here in the US.


    Like I said, it says more about (what) you (don't know), than it does about reality. I know, I know....you have to wait for multiple studies, with appropriate dilgence. Must suck to have to view the world through a rear view mirror that seems to be literally a decade behind current events. I think they call those folks historians, which is fine, but when you start acting like you have the 411 on what's happening in the world...TODAY....well....you simply have no idea what you are talking about.


  • save the rustbelt

    Actually, academic economists are more like Monday morning quarterbacks than real ones.


    Next time I see Ben, I'll tell him you are after his job.

  • happyjuggler0

    Oh yeah, how could I forget? Employee attitudes, especially unions.

  • happyjuggler0

    There is a long laundry list of things that companies look for (or their lack thereof) when deciding what country (or region, such as "inner cities") to invest in, such as when opening a new factory.


    Productivity, both in terms of output per hour or week, and in terms of quality, as your Steelers example makes clear.


    In addition to productivity there is: wages/benefits, rent and or real estate costs, tax rates (corporate, payroll, taxes on inputs such as VAT's), insurance costs, availability and reliability of electricity, availablity of adequate or high quality suppliers, telephone/internet access and reliability, quality of roads, airports and seaports, employment and travel restrictions on foreigners, corruption, clear and reliable property rights, threat of expropriation or nationalization, threat of physical crime or war, reams of red tape and regulations, labor laws such as minimum wages and hiring and firing restrictions, lead time and shipping costs regarding proximity to customers, language and cultural barriers, currency issues such as devaluation or barriers to repatriation of profits, local banking reliability for operating cash or possible loans, trustworthiness of local employees and ability to oversee employees, etc. (I'm sure there's more I couldn't think of off the top of my head).


    Companies aren't making an investment in shares of a stock on a liquid exchange they can sell at the first sign of trouble, they are investing for the long run. Thus not only must companies analyze factors that is not always easy to get reliable info on, but they have to make a guesstimate of the future conditions too.


    Looking at that laundry list, inculding, it ought to be clear that wages while important, may only be a relatively small factor in deciding where to locate. The real miracle is that there are those foreigners willing to open up shop in stone age kleptocracies at all.


  • RP,


    Please direct us to the evidence that many high-skilled jobs are being sent overseas by employers in search low wages -- with "many," of course, interpreted as Ned Lamont and others (such as, oh, say, Paul Craig Roberts) intend it to be understood; namely, as meaning that lost high-wage jobs are replaced overwhelmingly only with low-wage jobs. Got solid evidence that will stand up to the tons of evidence that flatly contradicts this assertion?

  • RP

    The quote "but the evidence for it is scant." says more about you than it does about reality. Good luck with that.

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