Alex, over at Marginal Revolution, makes an important and germane point.
Rationality and Experience
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I think he misuses the term irrational. Using my past knowledge to make future decisions is not irrational. If situations have changed, I might be incorrect for using that past information but I am rational.
Realizing that situations have changed and taking extreme measures as a result (fleeing to liquidity, risk aversion, selling everything and running to mexico) are not necessarily irrational either, though they certainly can be.
No he doesn't.
In every single case when someone is pontificating on how irrational people are, that person needs to go look in a mirror to see the irrational one.
In every single case their arguments boil down to the same fallacy: people aren't doing what I think they should be doing, I'm rational, hence people are irrational.
"In every single case when someone is pontificating on how irrational people are, that person needs to go look in a mirror to see the irrational one.
In every single case their arguments boil down to the same fallacy: people aren't doing what I think they should be doing, I'm rational, hence people are irrational."
You are saying the one who judges is irrational, but in every single case it boils down to a fallacy: the one judging the irrationality is not doing what you think should be done, hence the judge is irrational — therefore, according to your logic, you must look in the mirror to see who is irrational. Your rebuttal here seems to be illogical and circular.
What's rational for an individual is not necessarily rational for the group. I thought this was pretty much an axiom, no?
It's perfectly rational for an individual approaching retirement to withdraw a large portion of their investments from the market during periods of high volatility and place it in government bonds as a method of wealth preservation. When everyone does it, however, it exacerbates the problem.
Perhaps it's us economists who are irrational extrapolating the relative abnormal rationality of the past 20 or 30 years and assuming the present is somehow irrational. Perhaps this is 'normal', and the last couple of decades were not…
I guess I'm somehow missing the point of that discussion piece.
Hayek was a closet critical rationalist. He befriended Karl Popper, and the two discussed epistemology and methodology frequently.
If mainstream economists understood Karl Popper's work as Hayek did, as opposed to assuming positivist or pragmatist nonsense, then much of this confusion about "rationality" would be seen for the waste of time that it is. Some even claim that W.W. Bartley, another critical rationalist and editor of The Fatal Conceit, practically wrote the book himself while Hayek suffered from a debilitating illness.
The ideas expressed in Hayek's work were deeply affected by these underlying philisiphical presuppositions, and much nonsense which proliferates in economics today would be banished if they were more understood.
There's a confusion here between rationality and foolishness. A man may be insane, but not "irrational." He must still act rationally, that is, apply means to ends, however foolish the means, or even insane the ends.
That's basic Mises.
I love Lee Kelley's comments and hope he'll explain major differences between Popper on the one hand and Hayek and Mises, and especially Mises, on the other.
dg lesvic,
What Mises called human action or praxeology, Popper called situational analysis. But both held very different views on epistemology and methodology. Mises has his apriorism, whereas Popper was a critical rationalist. The main contention revolves around wheat Bartley called 'justificationism'; Mises was and Popper was not, and I think Hayek agreed with Popper.
I much prefer Popper's philosophy. It is more consistent with the classical liberal tradition, and offers an excellent paradigm in which to understand the marketplace as an evolving example of Popper's objective knowledge.
Marcus – there is such a thing as stupidity in the world. If people want a free lunch(aka soak the rich and get govt programs), but it doesn't exist are they engaging in rational behavior?
Lee Kelley,
I appreciate your effort to enlighten me on Popper vs. Mises, but I'm afraid I still don't get it.
I never read Popper. Somehow I had a feeling I wouldn't care for him, and what you said about Hayek taking his side against Mises reinforces that feeling, inasmuch as I'm on Mises' side against Hayek, in those matters. And so was Hayek really. He admitted that he compromised his principles in order to gain acceptance.
But thanks again for the effort, and keep up the good work. I really like your comments, and look forward to them.
Lee Kelley,
Here's a clue to what it's really all about.
You wrote:
"Mises has his apriorism, whereas Popper was a critical rationalist."
That implies that Popper was an empiricist, and that the dispute between himself and Mises was the same as that between Friedman and Mises, and the old German Historical School and Menger.
Is that right?
dg lesvic,
Popper was emphatically not an empiricist, but neither was he a Cartesian-style rationalist. Critical rationalism is off that philosophical spectrum in the same way that libertarianism is off the left-right political spectrum. It is a whole other way of thinking about philosophical, epistemological, and methodological problems. Bartley referred to it as a metacontextual shift, which requires and abandoning, and in some cases, outright reversal of standards by which philosophical problems are traditionally recognised and their solutions evaluated.
Although Popper's situational anaylsis was very similar to Mises' praxeology in logical content, each thought about their theory very differently. These deeply rooted differences led both to make very different claims about what they had accomplished.
Lee Kelley,
I do appreciate your effort at enlightening me, but I'm afraid that I'm as much in the dark as before. I still have no idea where Popper and Mises differ, and I sure can't see how libertarianism could be off the left-right spectrum without being completely irrelevant to the left-right dispute; and, what other is there?