declining to say what it cost for President Barack Obama and his wife,
Michelle, to eat dinner and take in a play in New York over the
weekend.
Asked if he would outline the costs, Gibbs said Monday
the Obamas would have preferred using a commercial airline shuttle to
New York and back but the Secret Service would not allow such
unprotected travel.
The president has been criticized for the trip to New York in
the midst of the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression and
with thousands of auto workers facing unemployment as General Motors
prepared to file for bankruptcy and Chrysler was about to emerge from
court-guided restructuring.
Why isn't the President admitting how much he stimulated the economy? Shouldn't he take pride in it? Isn't the greater the spending the bigger the stimulus? Help me out here, folks.
True, one plane would have been sufficient. But then there would have been less stimulus.
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It's nice to be the king.
Why should Obama go to New York? Why not bring the restaurant and theatre to Washington D.C. instead? Now that would be some real stimulatin'.
Sure, he stimulates the economy, but just think of the polar bears he's killing.
I believe that price tag would really be extravagant if Obama were assasinated. This country is full of angry, armed-to-the-teeth, hoosier right-wingers that hate Obama and want him dead before he supports more abortions, more gay marriages, overturns "Don't ask don't tell," and turns this country into the United Socialist States of America or the USS of A. John Wilkes Booth assasinated Lincoln during a play at Ford's theater. There are copycat killers waitng in the wings.
The recent killing of a prominent abortion doctor by a "pro-lifer" fanatic is par for the course in this wacked out country of losers. I only hope someone tasted his food before he took a bite to check for poison.
Recall that the auto execs tried to stimulate their way to DC and lobby for, yep, you guessed it, a targeted stimulus. But then the backlash was so great that the same execs carpooled in a hybrid the second time they lobbied. Not that lobbying was frowned upon — no. It was the fact that these bastard fat cats wanted to take private jets the first time while their companies were losing money. But that was only the venial sin: the cardinal sin was that they had left a carbon footprint.
Methinks: it's "It's good to be the king." ~ Mel Brooks
I only hope someone tasted his foot before he took to type to CafeHayek and spew poison.
Why does every article have to mention " the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression"?
Professors, you are too liberal. Just ban him once and for all. Your blog will be the better for it.
>>Why does every article have to mention " the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression"?<<
Let me be real clear, here…if a president repeats a line often enough, it seems to become part of everyone's venacular.
Isn't this the same guy who labeled Chrysler and GM bond holders as "greedy speculators" when they objected to his wanting to circumvent the rule of law and move the labor unions ahead of bond debt holders as claimants to the auto companies' assets.
With every post Strumpit shows his idiocy.
Most people want Obama to live long enough to suffer all the idignities of old age, especially those that befall smokers.
Hey Obama, if the secret service told you to jump off a cliff, would you do it?
Ok, the post here are officially messed up, I knew George Tiller as a social acquaintance. I remember seeing him in the gym recovering from being shot in the arms—among many other meetings (I would say hi George, but I never did like the guy). However, he has a great family and his office is full of thank you cards from those he helped. Despite what has been said, this deeply religious man dealt with the worst cases imaginable—as in folks dealing with stillbirths, dead mothers, and children who would kill the latter. He only did what he did because of the horror he saw in the 70s. Did I like what he did? No! Was he the victim of a witch hunt? Yes? Should we condone what happened to him? No? As for the likes of Strumpit: Obama is our President, as Bush was. The only thing Von Mises professed any faith in was democracy. Sure, he hated the bureaucratization of the government under the New Deal, but he conceded that it was the will of the people—See Bureaucracy .
Obama is our president. Will we criticize him? Yes! But he is the president, and our criticism will respect his office. He is the President and none of us should forget that.
You just know Robert Gibbs will get the Tonight Show gig after Conan flops. To me, it's far more amazing that they have sent 3000 people over to Egypt to preposition security for Obama's June 5 visit. You just know that he'll have some line in his speech intended for the Islamic world about how his administration is working closely with western cartoonists (especially the Danes) to ensure that they never depict the prophet Mohammed again.
The government only paid for 2 planes. The third one came free due to the 1.5 multiplier on government spending. (smile)
Hilarious post, Russ. Excellent.
Gibbs just didn't want to say that the money came from all those financial service execs who got to keep their billions in bonuses.
They all chipped in 0.001% and sprung for a night out.
Wow… it was a date guys. Calm down
Wow… it was a date guys. Calm down
Pretty expensive date though – at least Clinton's "dates" were cheap by comparison.
Quote from Albatross: "Obama is our president. Will we criticize him? Yes! But he is the president, and our criticism will respect his office. He is the President and none of us should forget that."
Dude, he's just another politician. His job is president. He doesn't have any special powers, other than talking a good game. Just because you might be buying his pitch, doesn't make it right And just because he got elected doesn't mean we have to respect anything.
He's a bigger incompetent boob that Bush (either one), as evidenced by this little dinner date. Tell me who out there, other then the mega rich, ever think about jetting off to New York for dinner? And Obama isn't mega rich. He's just another politician spending somebody else's money.
I completely reject this notion of "respecting the office" of the Presidency.
He is not the pope. There is no infallibility granted to the Chair of St. George Washington.
Veritas -
Well, I don't think "respect" is the same thing as "don't criticize" him. We all should respect him. And we should also criticize him when we feel the need. And there is certainly no infallibility grant for anyone – certainly not the president.
I just think it's incredible we're scrutinizing his date like this!!!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” — Mark Twain
Daniel,
The point about the date is not what he did, where he went or any of that. I don't think any of us really care. The problem is that he spent a lot of taxpayer money to do it at a time that our government is running huge deficits.
The office of the President has an incredible responsibility and also an incredible number of perks that come with it. He was in London a few weeks ago, he could have taken in a play there – pretty cool date, no. Marginal cost is small. Traveling from DC to NY for a date has a high marginal cost.
Oh, one other thing, it's not his money. If he can cover all costs himself, fine. He wanted to be President – as evidenced by 20+ months of grueling campaigning – he should know that the office might put a little cramp in his lifestyle and dating patterns.
Methinks was right (as usual) – it is good to be the king.
>>I just think it's incredible we're scrutinizing his date like this!!!<<
If you were to read between the lines just a bit, DK, the criticism is far less about the date and its associated travel expenses on the taxpayers dime — for that kind of thing is nothing new. No, the criticism is much more about the theory of Keynesian stimulus. The fact that Prof. Robertys got the two-for shot on the political class [and on that idiots who adore the political class] was just a bonus.
So, lighten up, DK! Your political leanings and biases are really outwardly showing on this one. And that probably not what you're trying to display — especially for someone who has staked his reputation on such political middleground.
T Rich -
I know exactly what people are criticizing, and I still think it's a little childish.
The Republic is not going to crumble because the president took a plane ride.
This country is full of angry, armed-to-the-teeth, hoosier right-wingers that hate Obama
Didn't Indiana go for Obama in the election?
Daniel, we are in agreement. This is a drop in the ocean.
It's just hard to NOT hang the president with his own rhetoric. He says repeatedly this is the worst economic crisis since the Depression. His supporters made a huge deal about every trip Bush made to Crawford, TX (which we all know was more working than vacation.)
The interesting piece of this to watch is how the president's most die-hard partisan supporters cope with losing the "high ground" they have perceived themselves as enjoying for so long.
raja-r,
Don't give Clinton a pass until you know for sure what he paid for his cigars and pizza.
. Where he was cheap was in not springing for a little dry cleaning.
In T-Brazorian philosophy respect is earned never given. The way to earn respect is to be respectable. Obama is a politician and by definition unworthy of respect.
Obama may have earned some respect for his performance as an ACORN employee for such things a promptness, diligence, misleading, rabble-rousing, and revolution. But, as an elected official he has done nothing worthy of respect. He is a liar, as all politicians are, and his actions as president are all predicated on known flawed theory and public devastation when practiced.
He has done absolutely nothing to promote what this country needs more than anything else, and that is development of good character and self reliance. His performance so far is pure socialism and that is degeneration. Respect, he is a long way from earning it.
He may be your president, but I do not claim him (fat lot of good it will do me though) as a point of pride. I personally am ashamed for this nation that we sank so low as to elect a man based on the color of skin and can point to nothing that qualified him for the office.
//One observation from my military career is that Americans make the universal mistake of thinking those "others" over there are just not a sharp as we are. That leads them to think that those "others" don't see and understand what we do. I can tell you that is bullsh.t, those "others" over there know the truth, Obama was elected because of his skin color, not his qualifications, and when he comes to their country and meets with their leaders it is as an elected black man, not as a tried and tested leader. Where does that leave this nation?//
My response, on respect, would undoubtedly have been the same had McCain been elected. Sad and sorry lot, the bunch of them.
>>The Republic is not going to crumble because the president took a plane ride.<<
But surely the social fabric of the country will crumble because the preseident takes some criticism from a supposed childish source, right DK?
I think the criticism is pretty funny and is just one of the many reasons I visit this blog. Why do you visit this blog if you're frustrated by it much of the time? Masochism?
LCJ -
RE: "So, lighten up, DK! Your political leanings and biases are really outwardly showing on this one."
What do my political leanings have to do with my belief that presidents are going to fly places for soirees, vacations, long weekends, dates, etc. and that it will cost more than usual but it's nothing to lose our heads over?
RE: "No, the criticism is much more about the theory of Keynesian stimulus."
I recognize that, but it's a little generous of you to say that observing "gee I thought you liked spending you should be bragging about this" amounts to an engagement of the theory behind stimulus.
Ike -
RE: "He says repeatedly this is the worst economic crisis since the Depression."
Ya… it is isn't it?
RE: "His supporters made a huge deal about every trip Bush made to Crawford, TX (which we all know was more working than vacation.)"
I'm not sure which of his supporters you're refering to, but again I'd reiterate that presidents are going to take long weekends and vacations and they're going to be more expensive than the average person's long weekends or vacations… so? Is this a surprise? Is this really an issue?
RE: "The interesting piece of this to watch is how the president's most die-hard partisan supporters cope with losing the "high ground" they have perceived themselves as enjoying for so long."
I think you're making the mistake of assuming that people who think this isn't a big deal are "die hard partisans" who thought it was a big deal when Bush did it. This isn't a Republican/Democrat thing. I fail to see how flying around on air force one has one iota to do with what party you're a member of.
vidyohs -
RE: "I personally am ashamed for this nation that we sank so low as to elect a man based on the color of skin"
Wow – you still think this?!?!?! You really really don't understand do you? I mean – it's one thing not to agree with a thing that he's done. But give the people who took the choice seriously and voted for him both in the primaries and in the general election a little more credit than that!
Why is it relevant Obama "would have preferred to fly commercial"?
That was obviously not an option.
He made the decision to go on this date knowing full well he was not going to fly commercial.
Why can't we at least get half-assed excuses that make some degree of sense.
Would you react differently if W did the same thing? If so, why?
I would have viewed it as an overreach if W had done it in a good economy and would not have advised it.
I think the timing of Pres. Obama's little junket also adds to the consternation of the people. Yes, the date was costly, and yes, it was a drop in the ocean of government spending. But it is of interest that he spent taxpayer money for a personal junket to New York right before he told the people of this country that they will be called upon to sacrifice their pleasure for his stimulus, and his socialization of the auto industry.
For a man who works off of symbolic gestures (remember the Greek columns in Denver?), this is a pretty bad slip, if slip it was.
As more and more people slip into the ranks of the unemployed (Obama's policies have not created jobs, but are destroying them), lose their businesses (think about those GM and Chrysler dealerships that have been stolen), and lose their homes, Obama's flamboyant behavior will be more pointedly criticized. This most recent has a let-them-eat-cake quality about it.
Having date night at the White House is more in keeping with the times, and with servants, a chef and private theater, is likely still more elegant than the staycations that most Americans are contemplating as this recession continues.
Daniel,
Why should I respect him?
What has he done to earn that respect?
Veritas -
He's achieved a lot in his life, he's very intelligent and a graduate of some venerable institutions. He dedicated a lot of time and fortune to helping low income populations. By all indications he's a fantastic father a dedicated husband and son and grandson. Even if you disagree with him, he's very dedicated to the people of this country. Even if you don't think so a lot of people feel like he's taken their concerns to heart. He doesn't seem to dismiss his opponents – he's very open-minded without being indecisive. He's worked very hard in his career. And ultimately, because I think he would show a great deal of respect for you if he were in your place.
What I don't understand about you, Veritas, is that nobody is saying you need to embrace him and endorse him or even want him in office. But where have we gotten to in this country that we can't treat a man like this with decency and respect???? It was really bad under Bush – people were really horrible to him. But it seems to just be getting worse and worse. I think it's generally a bad trend, when this sort of mutual respect breaks down. There's a lot to respect in Obama. Nothing wrong with saying that.
At least them GM execs were using the plane for legitimate business purposes…..
Remember the righteous indignation? The serious, leveled, no nonsense tone of voice? The heavy pronouncements?
Memo to press sec. Gibbs:
Don't know how to break this to you, but most of them american middle class folk you love so much, won't even fly COMMERCIAL for date night with the missus.
They'll use this outdated form of transportation called a CAR. it's got four wheels on the bottom and is operated by a DRIVER which is kind of like a pilot except they don't fly.
Also, on date night they usually do with whatever venues are IN TOWN.
I understand the President loves his wife and all, but he might like to try a little more of something known as being IN TOUCH.
Albatross,
Somehow, I don't feel bound by Mises' feelings regarding Democracy. And as soon as the Boob in Chief remembers I'm not his serf, I'll start respecting him. I don't care what office you hold and which pack of rent seekers put you there, I don't feel I owe respect until it is earned.
Daniel,
Without the security, a private flight on a 7-seater Cessna Citation Ultra costs roughly $6,500 per hour. Flying a Jet the size of Air Force One is multiples of that and DC is about an hour from NY. Pretty expensive date – if you pay for your personal entertainment out of your own pocket. But what's the big deal, right? I mean he's only stealing a very little bit more from every pocket except his own, so it's okay.
I don't give a crap if he hires the Blue Angels to fly him and his lovely wife to Paris just for a Saturday night dinner as long as he pays for his PRIVATE DATES out of his own deep pockets. When I'm forced to pay for his private dates, I have something to say about it.
Incidentally, I don't give a fig how difficult it is for him to get away for dinner and a show. I haven't had a single day off for years. You take the job and you take what comes with it. I don't force my "constituency" to pay for my private jets and my entertainment and I expect the commander in chief to pay for his on personal whims as well. If he finds that too difficult, he can choose another profession.
Those things have nothing to do with the Office of the President, which you wrote I should respect.
I also have very little respect for Obama personally. He seems like a cooly measured and calculated opportunist. He suffers from a massive sense of presumption.
Pride is not something to be respected or admired.
Quote from Daniel Kuehn: "I know exactly what people are criticizing, and I still think it's a little childish."
Then, you pay for it.
He's achieved a lot in his life, he's very intelligent and a graduate of some venerable institutions.
Where you graduated from is only relevant for contacts after you graduate and your first job. "Accomplished a lot" is relative and subjective. I know people who have accomplished "a lot" in their lives and this guy isn't even in the ballpark. He's incredibly under-accomplished.
He dedicated a lot of time and fortune to helping low income populations.
BS.
Even if you disagree with him, he's very dedicated to the people of this country.
What does that even mean? If he were dedicated to the people of this country he wouldn't be enslaving them to his singular vision. This is the same personality cults practiced by dictatorships. It's sickening.
Bush, a disaster as president, is actually a very likable person who is actually loyal to his friends. Obama is the opposite. He is wholly unlikeable and would sell his mother down the river if it meant furthering his political career. He uses people like tissues. And he's continuing the worst of Bush's policies. I can TOTALLY see why this disaster deserves my respect.
>>What do my political leanings have to do…<<
A lot.
>>I recognize that, but it's a little generous of you to say that observing "gee I thought you liked spending you should be bragging about this" amounts to an engagement of the theory behind stimulus.<<
So, you're not engaged to the theory behind spending as stimulus?
And the one question that I really wanted the answer for is the one that you didn't provide. I'll ask it again: Why do you visit this blog if you're frustrated by it much of the time?
… [Obama] would sell his mother down the river if it meant furthering his political career.
-Methinks
Would? He threw his grandmother under the bus in his response to the criticisms of his links to Rev. Wright… who he later also threw under the bus… or down the river.
Veritas-
RE: "Those things have nothing to do with the Office of the President, which you wrote I should respect."
Ah I see. Well an office is an office. I suppose you're right on that. But I think the more abstract idea of the presidency is worthy of respect, simply by virtue of the respectable men who've held the office. This is getting goofy… what is the point of all this? Why are you protesting?
RE: "Pride is not something to be respected or admired."
Certainly not.
Methinks -
RE: "This is the same personality cults practiced by dictatorships. It's sickening."
No – and again I don't know if this is an artifact of your experience in the soviet block or what, but this is just crazy as is your "well I know people that are more accomplished" response. I'm sorry if I come from a country where a fair number of prominent people are actually deserving of respect and admiration (certainly not all of them). That isn't a personality cult, and it doesn't diminish the respect and honor of the countless other less prominent people deserve too. In what universe is looking up to a guy a personality cult???
RE: "Bush, a disaster as president, is actually a very likable person who is actually loyal to his friends."
Agreed
LCJ -
RE: "A lot."
Explain to me how my comment represents a political position one way or another. I am sincerely baffled by the claim. Nobody is talking politics here – not the initial post, and not my response. I'm really honestly not sure what you're getting at.
RE: "So, you're not engaged to the theory behind spending as stimulus?"
I don't even know what this sentence means.
RE: "Why do you visit this blog if you're frustrated by it much of the time?"
I didn't answer because I was writing as this question went up, apparently. I'm not frustrated by this blog usually. I find it very engaging and interesting most of the time. Today has been like the twilight zone, though… snarky comments about their date… snarky comments about the kids. It's been really weird, and yes – I suppose frustrating. But usually that's not the case.
Granted, I think their are a couple regularly occuring analytical fallacies on this blog, and I post a lot to point those out to people. But I comment because I think of myself as having a reformed/modified Cafe Hayek perspective, not an anti-Cafe Hayek perspective. Half the time I agree with the threads, but people bicker over the one sentence in my comment where I disagree. I can't help that! I also come here because I find Austrian economics intriguing.
At this risk of getting flamed myself… ;o)
"Half" might be a little hyperbole, but otherwise I think Daniel is right on this point.
What is it about "respecting" US presidents? 6 months ago he was a senator from Illinois (A fairly mediocre one at that.). You never hear anyone say we should respect our senators or representatives, but b/c someone goes from Sen. to Pres. from one day to the next, he's all of a sudden deserving of our respect?
MWG -
You don't respect Senators and Representatives either, huh?
I guess I was just raised to be respectful of all people until they gave me reason not to, and to respect people that have worked hard, achieved a lot, or are performing a public service – again until they give me reason not to.
I must take exception to TrumPit's mischaracterization of "hoosiers" as a murderous hoard that "this country is full of". All but the witless must see the witlessness of this.