Cleaned by Capitalism XVII

My point was more to do with the fact that Don seems to be conflating products that are better for us with products that help to mitigate the consequences of human actions on the natural environment (re: referring to bad breath as "personal pollution"). I hold the belief that capitalism is better than socialism in all ways. But to infer that someone is a socialist because they hold the belief that unregulated capitalism poses special problems for the environment is just nonsense. All forms of organization pose special, unique problems. To say that is something different than saying that these problems are (1) unsolvable and (2) a deal-breaker for the form of organization in question.

The USSR was an unmitigated disaster for the environment. China and India are currently unmitigated environmental disasters. That's all I need to say on that subject.

Again, saying unregulated capitalism poses special problems for the
health of the natural environment is not to say that socialism does
not pose special problems for the health of the natural enviornment.

I think I'm done with this thread. It's dissapointing that one can't
ask reasonable questions about the merits of capitalism without being
charged with socialist sympathies.

Oh look Danny's found a playfriend.

Are you trying to prove Billy's point about the pettiness and irrelevance of your comments on here?

RE: "It's dissapointing that one can't ask reasonable questions about the merits of capitalism without being charged with socialist sympathies."

Amen. You've described many of the commenters here to a tee.

Shorter Don:

1. Listerine strips are good.
2. Without capitalism, there would be no listerine strips.
3. Without capitalism, there would be nothing good in the world.

No contempt for markets here. But your series has been nothing more than an exercise in the following:

1. See X.
2. X is good.
3. Hooray for capitalism.

I'm not sure there are many intellectually honest people who don't believe that capitalism makes our lives better in many ways. But it seems to me that this series began in response to the belief that "pure, unregulated markets pose special problems for the health of the natural environment." In other words, you've lost focus if you're now positing Listerine strips as justification for a feel-good mentality when it comes to capitalism and the environment.

I'm trying to figure out which is dumber--the deductive argument you attribute to Don, or the belief that Don is making a deductive argument.

Actually Billy, you've lost focus if you have begun to believe that the small things don't count in the broad scope of things.

So many things turn on the smallest things and we never know what those may be until the turn is made and we don't approve of the direction.

I was taught as a kid in paying attention to all the details that, "for the want of the nail the shoe was lost, for the want of the shoe, the horse was lost, for the want of the horse the rider was lost, for want of the rider the message was lost, for want of the message the battle was lost, for want of the battle the war was lost, for want of the victory the people became slaves."

Are Listerine Breath mint strips the nail in some job seekers life?

I appreciate what Don is doing here by reminding people, and countering the claims of the left that capitalism is evil, that their world is made infinitely better in so many ways, some so tiny and casual that we all miss them, yet there they are.

If it bores you, pass on. Hooray for capitalism (and freedom)!

Hooray for capitalism. If you think socialism provides a much higher standard of living, please give me an example.

I don't think he was booing capitalism - I think he was just saying the argument lacked nuance.

I don't. Not sure where you inferred that from. Sigh.

Oh it could be from your snark about unregulated capitalism.

I've enjoyed the series quite a bit - particularly the far less obvious entries, like the screen door. But I've wondered about this too. Who exactly out there thinks that on net capitalism has made our lives dirtier and worse off? I saw a preview for the new Michael Moore movie last night, so I suppose that's one - but I doubt it's many. The real interesting point is that it obviously makes our lives cleaner in certain ways, but dirtier in others. And the ways it makes it dirtier can often be a lot subtler and less obvious than the ways that it can make it cleaner (ie - costs and benefits that aren't internalized in the property rights regime and therefore not internalized into the price). Gil's been frustrated with this too - notice Gil doesn't deny any of the things Don posts - he simply wants to push it a little farther. There's no grappling with these questions or solutions.

Nevertheless, I concur with "horray for capitalism" :) It's a fun series, and it doesn't have to be all things to all people. But if one wanted to take it farther, they certainly could.

evryone I know really loves that I use these!

I have used them. Do I love them, uh no. They are useful to one in my business of being up close to people as I must be frequently, but personally I'd rather gargle on a big glass of single malt scotch. :-)

These things are great.

Stop drinking coffee. It does wonders for the breath.

Yeah, but what does it do for the Columbians and Costa Ricans if we stop drinking coffee?

So, following your line of thought, if we stop drinking coffee, they become poorer, and unable to buy toothpaste. Their breath then stinks while yours might smell better.

So the question becomes whose breath must suffer purely to satisfy your desire to smooz, with clean breath, that cute receptionist in your company while your long suffering wife waits at home with your devastated kids?

Meanwhile Columbians and Costa Ricans starve with bad breath all because of your vanity.

Heartless bastard you turned out to be, eh? :-)

What is the point of this? Seriously.

Why are you here? What's the point of you being here? Seriously.

Many people believe the myth that capitalism makes our lives less healthy and less clean and, often, less pleasant.

But the world is filled with countless small ways in which markets in fact make our lives, our habitations, our surroundings, healthier and cleaner. The very fact that most persons never notice this emergent process of making our lives cleaner - and the fact that some hold in contempt my pointing out a few of these countless small ways that markets cleanse our environment - is reason enough to point out that these small ways add up to important victories against pollution.

Are there people who believe capitalism makes our world dirtier, well yes; one only has to listen regularly to Pacifica Radio (89.3FM in your area) to hear them. My local 90.1FM communist radio (Pacifica) rants on the subject all the time.

I wonder about people who can not see that all the small things as well as the large things are created (invented), all come from one individual's desire to create, develop, and market a product that will make him a profit. Capitalism.

Even in the extremely rare circumstances where someone is already wealthy, or with that rare lack of concern for personal security, do we ever see a product created, developed, and marketed with no intent by the creator to benefit from the profits, which he donates to a cause of his choosing. An example of this would be Newman's Own series of salad dressings. Not too many broke and destitute people forego the profits of their creations.

However, even in these circumstances it would be a lie to say they do not make a profit, because the profits are what are donated.

Capitalism is huge and capitalism is tiny, but it all has the same foundation and that is the desire of the individual to profit on his day.

Without profit there is no capital,
Without capital there is no capitalism.

Also, no government mandates or funding were involved in the creation of this product.