Tierney on Climategate

by Russ Roberts on December 1, 2009

in Environment

Tierney gives a nice summary (HT: Maggie’s Farm) of ClimateGate. Here is the EconTalk podcast on Group Think.

It is hard to know the exact scope of what was done wrong and what is dishonest. What is clear is that there was some dishonesty, some secrecy about data and lots of smugness. Group think is not healthy but breaking free from the group is very risky. Academics tend to be very risk averse or they’d be doing something else for a living.

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  • btok
  • btok
    Attention, American and Canadian citizens we are so close to losing our Sovereignty and our Freedom, is barely hanging by a thread! Make your voice and your rights known, as you are the boss not the politicans you voted into power!
    Time is getting short and it is coming down to the fact, that soon ( December 7 to December 18 ) I will have to pray to the good Lord to maintain our freedoms and that God will not allow our leaders to sign the Copenhagen Treaty, which will take away our liberties, let go and let God, this being a challenge to our Lord and Saviour? However, while there is still time to prevent the loss of a lifetime, perhaps loss of life it's self - I will do what I am able to fight for our freedoms! The whole Climate Change agenda is a proven fraud and racketeering, but the United Nations and Globalist governments don't care as that is just the excuse instrument they have used to ensnare us, they are going to try to push it through anyway! Has everybody out there become a tree hugger? The tree will be standing 100 years from now, but will you be looking at the tree, from inside the fence of a Concentration Camp? Anyone out there want to fight to maintain their freedom anymore? Please do all you can to preserve freedom in North America!

    Check out what Government is doing behind your back at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

    Canadians: To request that PM Harper doesn't sign the Copenhagen Treaty, thereby causing
    Canadians to lose their Sovereignty and Freedom, email the PM at: pm@pm.gc.ca

    Any lawyers want to help out by filing this Copenhagen Treaty be classified as an illegal Treaty, in order to, help save Freedom in North America? ( Unlimited Promotion Opportunity Here For a Law firm to Gain a favorable high profile credibility! )
  • Russ,

    From Mankiw's blog: http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2009/12/predicti...
    "The bottom line: An economist's citation ranking is a strong predictor. Given citations, the economist's number of publications has no additional predictive value for who obtains honors."

    Are there any papers, books or articles on the market of Academic Journals?
    ClimateGate really has me fascinated on the incentives involved with publishing, tenure and reward in Academic Journals, Awards etc.
    It seems to me, the layman, that the whole incentive structure is designed to produce homogeneous, bland and, in the case of ClimateGate, corrupt thinking in Academia.
    If the number of citations is directly correlated to Nobels, Awards, Grants....MONEY, then wouldn't any rational academic want to publish what would get cited even if it's all wrong and bad science? Basically, Journals only publish the Pop-topics of the day, with the only real innovations happening on the extreme margins, since they would be counter to the group think?
    Please Russ or Don if you have any articles, books, etc...that talk about this I'd love to read them.
  • muirgeo
    Here's what's going to happen regarding ClimateGate. First it will not effect natures response to increasing levels of greenhouse gases. The positive forcing will persist in spite of talking heads and news room chatter boxes and right wing nutty talk show host or even in spite of the Fox News Crusade. The cliate WILL continue to warm.

    Second it's obvious they aren't effecting the data too much... otherwise why would we have the so called cooling since 1998?

    Third the warming will resume in earnest as anthropogenic warming continues and solar warming and other natural variables move more positive.

    The deniers, ClimateGate mob, the Charlatans will ultimately be shown very clearly to be the fools and mobsters that they all are. It will be a massive embarrassment not for climate researchers but those who persecute them for delivering inconvenient truths and data.
  • Barbarossa
    I bet you loved Shyamalan's magnum poopus, "The Happening."

    "...and solar warming and other natural variables move more positive." Aren't you arguing skeptics' point here? So you admit there are other causes to (the possible) global warming? You nitwit.
  • sandre
    Prophesies of St George Ballela,

    1. First it will not effect natures response to increasing levels of greenhouse gases.

    2. it's obvious they aren't effecting the data too much..

    3. the warming will resume in earnest as anthropogenic warming continues and solar warming and other natural variables move more positive

    4. The deniers, ClimateGate mob, the Charlatans will ultimately be shown very clearly to be the fools and mobsters that they all are. It will be a massive embarrassment not for climate researchers but those who persecute them for delivering inconvenient truths and data

    All is true, because he says so. St. George will soon dazzle us with the math. Holding my breath.

    Mmmmmwwwwwaaaaaahhhhhhh
  • muirgeo
    "Group think is not healthy but breaking free from the group is very risky. "

    Does this happen in the GMU school of economics? The Chicago School?
  • sandre
    Questions is does it happen in all other schools in the country. THe answer is obvious - a resounding No.

    Because all the other schools are in support of us and our 900 billionaire buddies. It is a no-contest. We have the majority muir. We have the monopoly on the truth.

    mmmmmwwwwwwaaaaaaaahhhhhhh
  • Damn have to be pay to read Tierney's article. I refuse to give any money to NYTimes. Anyone have an unlocked version of the article?

    From what Russ wrote, I mentioned that in the "Not Science" post. The incentives from the "publish or perish," the way professors get tenure, the Teacher-student link all push towards group think in Academia.

    The "publish or perish" in a corrupt peer review process can and has steered journals towards a narrow view, almost devoid of skepticism in those journals. To take the NYT as an example, look how they ran off the only "token" conservative Bill Kristol, now the Time, just as in a corrupt peer review journal is entirely one sided. Now that they are a biased, they are free to publish anything with no thoughts of confirmation bias what so ever. Confirmation Bias runs rampant in Academia. AGW Skeptics know it, Austrians know it, etc...

    The Tenure Track offers it's own little incentives to conform to the group. I mean how can you get tenure if your views are in constant disagreement with your peers in your dept? I'm sure Don and Russ can elaborate on that a lot better than I can.

    Of course the Teacher-Student link is heavily involved. I don't know if it has a formal name, someone could help me out and let me know if it does. What I mean is the tendency for the student (PHd students) to conform to the view of the mentor. This is why Chicago schools turns out so many Neo-Classicals, why GMU turns out more Austrians and Pub Choice doctorates etc. If the teacher/mentor holds a view that the world is flat, chances are they students he/she mentors are going to believe the same thing...over and over again the cycle repeats. Again, Skeptics and Austrians know this phenomenon well. Again Don and Russ can elaborate on that phenomenon better than I can.
  • Never mind found an un-gated link.

    "the climate scientists are e-mailing one another with strategies for blocking outsiders’ legal requests to see their data."

    Shows how corrupted the whole process has become. Think about this and how in U of Minnesota, they are requiring new teachers to all conform to political correctness. Are we seeing 1984, emerge right before our eyes?

    "But the graph adorned the cover of a report intended for policy makers and journalists. The nonexperts wouldn’t have realized that the scariest part of that graph — the recent temperatures soaring far above anything in the previous millennium — was based on a completely different measurement from the earlier portion. It looked like one smooth, continuous line leading straight upward to certain doom."

    Scare tactics and fear-mongering, typical tactics from the Left.

    "Dr. Mann now tells me that he was unaware, when he wrote the response, that such grafting had in fact been done in the earlier cover chart, and I take him at his word."

    Why not he is a scientist! All scientists are angels, we should always trust them without question. /snark
    Ha ask tell that to Dr. Wirths patients.
  • sandre
    Here is the WSJ article that Bill referred to

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB200014240527487...
  • Bill Stepp
    Richard S. Lindzen has a good skepitcal article on global warming in today's WSJ. Also, the current Economist, p. 34, cites Comrade O's "promise" to be made at Copenhagen to reduce greenhouse gases from 2005 levels by 17% by 2020, by 30% by 2025, by 42% by 2030, and by 83% (!) by 2050.
    My question for Comrade O is: what year does our economy get reduced to the Stone Age?
    And I don't want to see 82.9%; it's gotta be the full 83.
    Full monte indeed.
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