Scary. This article tells a similar tale of fact not equating to truth, and of politics being the fact that tells a lie.
AnonymousSeptember 21, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Sounds like the Feds now have an “Office of the Morale Conditioner” — just like the one in “Atlas Shrugged”.
twSeptember 21, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Along the same lines, what about all the words that the House of Representatives banned (or proposed to ban – I forget which) from being spoken on the floor late last week? I truly hope that Rep. Paul or a Congressman of similar ilk will challenge the constitutionality of that ban and take it to the Supreme Court. It’s a pure ban on politicial speech.
AnonymousSeptember 21, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Humana’s evelope is marked truthfully, it does contain information about the insured’s plan.
Every member of congress, both sides of the aisle has decried the eventual demise of medicare as it is in deep financial trouble and can’t last as it is, so we are to believe that cuts in it are not going to effect anyone’s coverage? How dey do dat? I could use a little of that MoJo.
Socialist can tolerate anything but opposition, even timid opposition must be crushed.
Funny. I had similar thoughts this morning in a business meeting. On the one hand, we had controllers. They think they know best, don’t appreciate the results of a real world tests, don’t seem to care about all the previous bad calls they made and dismiss ‘decentralists’.
While I didn’t use the same words to describe these two types of people, I learned a few things long ago about these people. One, It’s easy to sell controllers on an an idea. Just figure out how to tie it to their ego. Two, invest in companies run by decentralists. Google anyone?
AnonymousSeptember 21, 2009 at 9:35 pm
And tucked in there is the idea that the ideas should be suppressed because people are too stupid to tell the difference between a letter from the government and a letter from their insurance company.
“….the mailer ‘is misleading and confusing’ partly because the company’s lobbying campaign could be mistaken for an official communication about Medicare benefits.”
Ah, finally we can be just like the “rest of the world” and have our very own Ministry of Virtue and Vice.
Imagine the wailing and teeth gnashing if this happened under the Bush administration. Yet, here we are and I only get wind of this from Cafe Hayek and David Henderson. That’s a crack free press we have there.
How many Commissars are we up to at the White House these days? I’ve lost count.
AnonymousSeptember 21, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Am I the only one that going to say it? The constitution, according to the supreme court does not protect the commercial speech in the same way as it does personal speech.
The fact that it contained (according to some here) information on insurance plains makes it commercial speech and therefore under the weaker protection. Whether or not you agree with this ruling by the supreme court is another debate.
In my personal opinion (I know I in am in a minority here) IF the information was presented in a way to look official then yes the government has all right to stop/”condemn” it.
Disclaimer: With out really seeing the pamphlet first hand I can not pass judgment on the actions taken.
AnonymousSeptember 21, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Com’on BrentHa,What is official? Kinda loose term there ya know?I speak officially for vidyohs, and you for BrentHa. In the Humana mailer is there at any time, or any way, any mention of their mailer being government official? Oh and BTW, this kinda of reminds me of a certain election contest in select counties of Florida……Ha ha, telling the truth is confusing to who?The government overstepped its authority and jurisdiction….again. Some one is going to their wee wee stepped on and I bet in the long run it isn’t Humana.People are pissed right now and finally having their little noses rubbed in what has happened to them, and having finally awakened they are going to raise hell, until they go to sleep again……God knows how quick that will come.
AnonymousSeptember 21, 2009 at 11:29 pm
I was saying that if for instances looked as if it was a pamphlet from the health department then yes it would be fraud. Not saying they did that. Like I said, have not see the pamphlet I can not pass judgment. A better word to use is fraud. If the information was presented in a way that miss lead people on, who sent it, its factually integrity exe Then it would be fraud and fully under the authority of justest to stop or condemn it.AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING THEY DID COMMIT FRAUD. RATHER WHAT I AM SAYING IS IF THEY DID THEN THE ACTION TAKEN IS APPROPRIATE.
AnonymousSeptember 22, 2009 at 12:15 am
Okay sir,
Just go back to the top, follow all the links and you will see the Humana letter, which is clearly in no way in appearance anything other than a letter from Humana.
No fraud, free speech. Coercion, raw naked coercion on the part of the Obama administration officials.
enquiring_canuckSeptember 22, 2009 at 12:34 am
I would like to see Humana continue its mailing and take your gov’t to court. And if it has the balls, to sue the individual within the gov’t department who started this whole silencing effort. This is as bad as the “legal justification” for torture the previous admin set out.
Jake S.September 22, 2009 at 3:38 am
Someone must’ve turned in those “fishy” bastards and their “misleading and confusing” mailer to our just and noble protectors over at flag@whitehouse.gov…
Jake S.September 22, 2009 at 4:25 am
Oh, and thanks for the heads-up, Don… you finally got me to post over there.
muirgeoSeptember 22, 2009 at 5:29 am
It shouldn’t be an issue. Humana’s Medicare Advantage cost 115% of what traditional fee for service Medicare plans cost.
So HHS should have followed Human’s letter with one confirming that indeed Humana will be losing it’s benefits but Medicare patients will continue to get the same benefits for 15% saving to the nation.
AnonymousSeptember 22, 2009 at 9:35 am
“It shouldn’t be an issue.”
Yeah right; coercion is not an issue unless you’re the one coercing.
AnonymousSeptember 22, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Hey, Humana works for Medicare. I suspect there may well some contractual obligation.
We should never let private insurers infest Medicare in the first place. They offer nothing and simply increase cost.
Hey you dumb asses who want more private insurance and less public insurance plan on increasing out of pocket heath car expenditures to support the wealth of their CEO’s and stockholders.
I work in this industry and I’ve seen over the years my patients go from no co-pays to increasing co-pays to now huge deductibles and huge co-pays while the proportion of GDP that pays for health care rises and rises. And the cost of private insurance is out pacing that of public insurance.
Finally given their way if you have a chronic condition good luck getting any insurance. You just simply get to go bankrupt, suffer and THEN die.
Really you all have no idea how your folly would play out in the real world. In fact it HAS already played out… you all just need to read more of Charles Dickens.
AnonymousSeptember 22, 2009 at 1:22 pm
“We should never let private insurers infest Medicare in the first place. They offer nothing and simply increase cost.”
Hey stupid duck,
We should never have let government infest healthcare, or create public programs, in the first place, They offer nothing and have just increased the cost.
Oh, and thank you for your service.
AnonymousSeptember 22, 2009 at 9:40 am
I think I saw this movie: “Sentence first, then verdict.”
AnonymousSeptember 22, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Democrats (and bureaucrats in general) commonly mistake coercion for leadership.
UnderwriterguySeptember 22, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Under the regs that govern Medicare Advantage all “marketing materials” must be submitted for approval by the Feds before they can be released to beneficiaries. HUMANA claims, reasonably IMO, that they were publishing an informational piece (same with the website) rather than marketing materials. Feds disagree and HUMANA bows down; 50% of revenue is govt. contracts.
DanSeptember 23, 2009 at 1:35 pm
This is certainly scary and concerning government control. Humana has shut down their information website and phone line. What is happening to our country?
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{ 22 comments }
Scary.
This article tells a similar tale of fact not equating to truth, and of politics being the fact that tells a lie.
Sounds like the Feds now have an “Office of the Morale Conditioner” — just like the one in “Atlas Shrugged”.
Along the same lines, what about all the words that the House of Representatives banned (or proposed to ban – I forget which) from being spoken on the floor late last week? I truly hope that Rep. Paul or a Congressman of similar ilk will challenge the constitutionality of that ban and take it to the Supreme Court. It’s a pure ban on politicial speech.
Humana’s evelope is marked truthfully, it does contain information about the insured’s plan.
Every member of congress, both sides of the aisle has decried the eventual demise of medicare as it is in deep financial trouble and can’t last as it is, so we are to believe that cuts in it are not going to effect anyone’s coverage? How dey do dat? I could use a little of that MoJo.
Socialist can tolerate anything but opposition, even timid opposition must be crushed.
Funny. I had similar thoughts this morning in a business meeting. On the one hand, we had controllers. They think they know best, don’t appreciate the results of a real world tests, don’t seem to care about all the previous bad calls they made and dismiss ‘decentralists’.
While I didn’t use the same words to describe these two types of people, I learned a few things long ago about these people. One, It’s easy to sell controllers on an an idea. Just figure out how to tie it to their ego. Two, invest in companies run by decentralists. Google anyone?
And tucked in there is the idea that the ideas should be suppressed because people are too stupid to tell the difference between a letter from the government and a letter from their insurance company.
“….the mailer ‘is misleading and confusing’ partly because the company’s lobbying campaign could be mistaken for an official communication about Medicare benefits.”
Ah, finally we can be just like the “rest of the world” and have our very own Ministry of Virtue and Vice.
Imagine the wailing and teeth gnashing if this happened under the Bush administration. Yet, here we are and I only get wind of this from Cafe Hayek and David Henderson. That’s a crack free press we have there.
How many Commissars are we up to at the White House these days? I’ve lost count.
Am I the only one that going to say it? The constitution, according to the supreme court does not protect the commercial speech in the same way as it does personal speech.
The fact that it contained (according to some here) information on insurance plains makes it commercial speech and therefore under the weaker protection. Whether or not you agree with this ruling by the supreme court is another debate.
In my personal opinion (I know I in am in a minority here) IF the information was presented in a way to look official then yes the government has all right to stop/”condemn” it.
Disclaimer: With out really seeing the pamphlet first hand I can not pass judgment on the actions taken.
Com’on BrentHa,What is official? Kinda loose term there ya know?I speak officially for vidyohs, and you for BrentHa. In the Humana mailer is there at any time, or any way, any mention of their mailer being government official? Oh and BTW, this kinda of reminds me of a certain election contest in select counties of Florida……Ha ha, telling the truth is confusing to who?The government overstepped its authority and jurisdiction….again. Some one is going to their wee wee stepped on and I bet in the long run it isn’t Humana.People are pissed right now and finally having their little noses rubbed in what has happened to them, and having finally awakened they are going to raise hell, until they go to sleep again……God knows how quick that will come.
I was saying that if for instances looked as if it was a pamphlet from the health department then yes it would be fraud. Not saying they did that. Like I said, have not see the pamphlet I can not pass judgment. A better word to use is fraud. If the information was presented in a way that miss lead people on, who sent it, its factually integrity exe Then it would be fraud and fully under the authority of justest to stop or condemn it.AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING THEY DID COMMIT FRAUD. RATHER WHAT I AM SAYING IS IF THEY DID THEN THE ACTION TAKEN IS APPROPRIATE.
Okay sir,
Just go back to the top, follow all the links and you will see the Humana letter, which is clearly in no way in appearance anything other than a letter from Humana.
Then look at this:
http://www.finance.senate.gov/press/Bpress/2009press/prb092109a.pdf
and you will see a copy of the letter the HHS sent to Humana.
No fraud, free speech. Coercion, raw naked coercion on the part of the Obama administration officials.
I would like to see Humana continue its mailing and take your gov’t to court. And if it has the balls, to sue the individual within the gov’t department who started this whole silencing effort. This is as bad as the “legal justification” for torture the previous admin set out.
Someone must’ve turned in those “fishy” bastards and their “misleading and confusing” mailer to our just and noble protectors over at flag@whitehouse.gov…
Oh, and thanks for the heads-up, Don… you finally got me to post over there.
It shouldn’t be an issue. Humana’s Medicare Advantage cost 115% of what traditional fee for service Medicare plans cost.
See figure 3 ; http://www.kff.org/medicare/upload/2052-12.pdf
So HHS should have followed Human’s letter with one confirming that indeed Humana will be losing it’s benefits but Medicare patients will continue to get the same benefits for 15% saving to the nation.
“It shouldn’t be an issue.”
Yeah right; coercion is not an issue unless you’re the one coercing.
Hey, Humana works for Medicare. I suspect there may well some contractual obligation.
We should never let private insurers infest Medicare in the first place. They offer nothing and simply increase cost.
Hey you dumb asses who want more private insurance and less public insurance plan on increasing out of pocket heath car expenditures to support the wealth of their CEO’s and stockholders.
I work in this industry and I’ve seen over the years my patients go from no co-pays to increasing co-pays to now huge deductibles and huge co-pays while the proportion of GDP that pays for health care rises and rises. And the cost of private insurance is out pacing that of public insurance.
Finally given their way if you have a chronic condition good luck getting any insurance. You just simply get to go bankrupt, suffer and THEN die.
Really you all have no idea how your folly would play out in the real world. In fact it HAS already played out… you all just need to read more of Charles Dickens.
“We should never let private insurers infest Medicare in the first place. They offer nothing and simply increase cost.”
Hey stupid duck,
We should never have let government infest healthcare, or create public programs, in the first place, They offer nothing and have just increased the cost.
Oh, and thank you for your service.
I think I saw this movie: “Sentence first, then verdict.”
Democrats (and bureaucrats in general) commonly mistake coercion for leadership.
Under the regs that govern Medicare Advantage all “marketing materials” must be submitted for approval by the Feds before they can be released to beneficiaries. HUMANA claims, reasonably IMO, that they were publishing an informational piece (same with the website) rather than marketing materials. Feds disagree and HUMANA bows down; 50% of revenue is govt. contracts.
This is certainly scary and concerning government control. Humana has shut down their information website and phone line. What is happening to our country?