In the late 1980s the illustrious EPA gave their best fairhaired climatoligist the mission of investigating and proving the Acid Rain problem in the Northeast. Being a good scientist he took the mission, spent over three years on his thorough and detailed research; and, lo he found that Acid Rain in the Northeast, fish die-offs in lakes and streams, dying trees, etc. was a phenomenon that was traceable in Indian oral tradition to long before the white man ever came to the continent.
He accurately reported his findings that Acid rain was not caused by evil white man’s industry and autos.
The EPA promptly fired him, smeared him in every arena it could, and it took the man years to recover from their attacks on his skill and character. All this because he did not follow that narrative that the Enquiring Canuck says is a right wing fantasy.
Now you have this and it fits the narrative. I can say that I accurately made this prediction some two years ago. My prediction then was that the looney envirowhackos had congress and the deal on environmental legislation was done, it was no longer a question of if, but just when and how. All the evidence to the man on the street was there. Refusal to even discuss the science, declaring debate is over, etc., plus the solid support of the looney left for the agenda that is delivering them massive power to remake America into the image of 1988 East Germany.
I have long had a certain contempt for my fellow American man for his refusal to say shit when the government keeps dumping massive turds down his throat. A nation supposedly founded on courage, grown on courage, has now become this thing reflected in the article above? God help us.
How long until more than just a small circle of friends down here will stand up and say “no more”, we are out of here.
The agreement that established the corporation known as the government is not your agreement unless you make it so.
Refuse to give them money and refuse to give them support and it must collapse so that a new improved version can be crafted.
RandyOctober 2, 2009 at 2:23 pm
I hear you, Vidyohs, but the choice to actively resist is just not that easy. I’m pretty good with a rifle and I can still get around in the hills. I could do revolution. But I’ve got a family to take care of, and the best way to do that is to lay low. Blogs are good. Let them know we’re pissed off. But that’s as far as I can go.
AnonymousOctober 2, 2009 at 5:50 pm
I am not even close to advocating armed revolution against a military that is at this time usable by the opponent. We, you, I, all of us would lose because we can in no way compete with the weaponry and training we would be up against. Deer rifles, no matter how quixotic, are not going to do the trick. Puff the magic dragon can see you night or day from 10,000 feet and blanket an area the size of a football field in ten seconds with gatlinggun fire, it sees you, they want to kill you, you are dead.Your opponent has vision equipment that can detect and see infrared signatures of living bodies through 50 feet of solid rock. Not many hiding places are safe. You would be facing 50 caliber sniper rifles that can hit you from over a mile away and punch through cinder block like it was cheese, no way to feel confident about moving around. Thanks to traitorous congress people of the past and present, you are stuck with a deer rifle and binoculars.There are other ways to walk away, yes they involve a degree of risk but do not involve shooting or killing. Gandhi did not advocate violence, Jesus did not advocate violence, MLK did not advocate violence. All those people that showed up for tea parties including the large one in DC would effect great change if they, in inflexible unity, all just said, no more. No more money, no more cooperation, no more support. We get real change or we stay out and go our own way.Hell they would have to clean out all the murderers, rapists, insane, and violent offenders in order to even get close to jailing the first wave alone. That ain’t going to happen.
twOctober 2, 2009 at 3:03 pm
In the light of Michael Moore’s new movie (haven’t seen it, but have read much about it) and the preponderence of articles like these, isn’t it time to come up with a new term that describes our economic system?
It’s clearly not capitalism…but not yet far enough along to be branded socialism. I know managed capitalism has been widely used, but it’s clearly not capitalism…sort of like how you can’t be a little bit pregnant.
I think Fascism is pretty close. Businesses are nominally privately owned but operations are largely dictated by government.
RandyOctober 2, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Methinks,
Agreed. Fascism works. Or, if we want to avoid the extreme negative connotations of that word, we could go with Corporatism – meaning a system of faux corporations who are in fact beholden to their political masters.
I think avoiding the word to avoid the negative connotations is a mistake. It’s the systems that led to the negative consequences and it’s important to remember we’ve been down this road before and to not forget where it leads.
twOctober 2, 2009 at 5:03 pm
My problem is that capitalism is becoming a dirty word because conventional wisdom seems to be that we are actually operating in a real capitalist system. That’s my real point about the Michael Moore movie….he’s saying our system is horribly flawed because capitalism doesn’t work, but our system isn’t really capitalism.
So what do we call it to distinguish it from capitalism? I’m not sure facism will go over well, given its association with Mussolini…I don’t think people can be convinced that we’re living like those Italians. And I don’t like corporatism because that seems to imply corporations are somehow inherently at fault/bad, as opposed to the overreach of government and the bastardized incentives they have set up.
AnonymousOctober 2, 2009 at 9:15 pm
I guess it depends on if you define “capitalism” as free enterprise or just free people. To me it has morphed to the latter in the eyes of both its adherents and detractors. A unit of capitalism is a unit of liberty. It is a transaction free from unwanted third party interference. Defined that way, it is a continuum, and populations can be more or less free (or capitalistic).
If government creates rents, they shall be sought.
Milton Friedman objected to strong government precisely (though not exclusively) because of the power industry is increased beyond what is natural when there is strong government. When politicians put power up for sale, it is the job of every business owner to buy it for their shareholders to better position the company.
It’s like earmarks. As long as pork spending is allowed, every politician must scramble to get as much of the largess as they can for their own constituents.
AnonymousOctober 2, 2009 at 6:00 pm
There you go, precisely why I did not condemn the CEOs of the power companies. They are doing precisely what government is encouraging them to do, and making it profitable for them to do so.
AnonymousOctober 3, 2009 at 5:27 am
You mean they are only trying to function as best they can within the system imposed upon them?
AnonymousOctober 2, 2009 at 3:38 pm
The fact that utilities would quit the Chamber is stunning in light of the immnense efforts that the Chamber is going through to protect intellectual property (“green” technology) being developed by the U.S. Developing countries want this technology given to them by mandate but this will be incentive killing. Over half of U.S. exports are now intellectual property oriented and it would be much more if other countries did not have policies and strategies to transfer IP without paying for it (this is non-tariff trade blocking as well as theft).
I’ve said it many times before, and been misunderstood as an opponent of capitalism. More often than not, businessmen are not capitalists. More often than not, businesses thieve from citizens using the long arm of the law. More often than not, big businesses (not the adjective modifier please) succeed by regulation not by satisfying customer with goods.
There exists a capitalist critique of big business and the common, anti-capitalistic practices of businessmen.
When we fail to identify and publicly criticize anti-capitalistic practices by businessmen, we sow the seeds of socialism. The average citizen knows quite well that large business interests have an inordinate say in crafting regulations. The average guy knows why hugely wealthy finance companies got bailouts but he didn’t.
The average Joe knows that (1) he cannot stop large business interests from taking his money to further enrich billionaire corporations and millionaire corporate managers, (2) he can never muster the political power to repeal regulations that disadvantage him against larger enterprises, (3) all that is left for the average guy is more regulation.
He doesn’t see a battle between liberty and socialism. He sees a battle between regulations that hurt him and regulations that don’t hurt him.
Any objective observe has to admit he’s right. Lots of free trade advocates have ignored this problem. I did for many years, myself.
I don’t think it matters what we call it. What matters is what the press decides to call it. And if we keep going this way, we will be living like “those Italians”.
I’m just calling it “almost time to immigrate again”.
RandyOctober 2, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Just a thought, but if the rest of the world is going to use “capitalism” to described the current f’d up mess, why fight it? Just use that word to describe a massively manipulated economy and start using the term Free Market to describe a possible alternative.
AnonymousOctober 2, 2009 at 5:58 pm
What you do to distinguish it from the conventional wisdom view of capitalism is learn what capitalism really is and simply tell the truth about it.
Breathing is not a product of an evil mind or character, neither is the desire to make a profit, both are entirely natural.
RandyOctober 2, 2009 at 6:34 pm
I get where you’re coming from, Vidyohs, but I’ve never liked the term “Capitalism” anyway. It always seemed to me like more of a communist propaganda word than a useful description of what a free market system is all about. The word implies that “capital” is the objective. It isn’t. Capital is just a tool. Wealth is the objective, and wealth comes in many forms.
AnonymousOctober 2, 2009 at 11:35 pm
That’s a fight you aren’t going to win, Randy. The label has been attached and the label is capitalism. The left has always had the privilege of labeling and that label become the common used.
I personally have no problem with the label, capitalism. The label is not the problem, the ignorance about the process, the tool, is the problem. Besides I would submit the truth that the stigma attached to socialism and communism is for more severe and negative than that attached to capitalism.
The proof of that is the way the left has run from communism to socialism, to liberal, to democrat, and now to progressive. they run from the truth like scared rabbits when they look a man in the eye who knows what they are.
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{ 19 comments }
Just another day at the office for the thieves.
In the late 1980s the illustrious EPA gave their best fairhaired climatoligist the mission of investigating and proving the Acid Rain problem in the Northeast. Being a good scientist he took the mission, spent over three years on his thorough and detailed research; and, lo he found that Acid Rain in the Northeast, fish die-offs in lakes and streams, dying trees, etc. was a phenomenon that was traceable in Indian oral tradition to long before the white man ever came to the continent.
He accurately reported his findings that Acid rain was not caused by evil white man’s industry and autos.
The EPA promptly fired him, smeared him in every arena it could, and it took the man years to recover from their attacks on his skill and character. All this because he did not follow that narrative that the Enquiring Canuck says is a right wing fantasy.
Now you have this and it fits the narrative. I can say that I accurately made this prediction some two years ago. My prediction then was that the looney envirowhackos had congress and the deal on environmental legislation was done, it was no longer a question of if, but just when and how. All the evidence to the man on the street was there. Refusal to even discuss the science, declaring debate is over, etc., plus the solid support of the looney left for the agenda that is delivering them massive power to remake America into the image of 1988 East Germany.
I have long had a certain contempt for my fellow American man for his refusal to say shit when the government keeps dumping massive turds down his throat. A nation supposedly founded on courage, grown on courage, has now become this thing reflected in the article above? God help us.
How long until more than just a small circle of friends down here will stand up and say “no more”, we are out of here.
The agreement that established the corporation known as the government is not your agreement unless you make it so.
Refuse to give them money and refuse to give them support and it must collapse so that a new improved version can be crafted.
I hear you, Vidyohs, but the choice to actively resist is just not that easy. I’m pretty good with a rifle and I can still get around in the hills. I could do revolution. But I’ve got a family to take care of, and the best way to do that is to lay low. Blogs are good. Let them know we’re pissed off. But that’s as far as I can go.
I am not even close to advocating armed revolution against a military that is at this time usable by the opponent. We, you, I, all of us would lose because we can in no way compete with the weaponry and training we would be up against. Deer rifles, no matter how quixotic, are not going to do the trick. Puff the magic dragon can see you night or day from 10,000 feet and blanket an area the size of a football field in ten seconds with gatlinggun fire, it sees you, they want to kill you, you are dead.Your opponent has vision equipment that can detect and see infrared signatures of living bodies through 50 feet of solid rock. Not many hiding places are safe. You would be facing 50 caliber sniper rifles that can hit you from over a mile away and punch through cinder block like it was cheese, no way to feel confident about moving around. Thanks to traitorous congress people of the past and present, you are stuck with a deer rifle and binoculars.There are other ways to walk away, yes they involve a degree of risk but do not involve shooting or killing. Gandhi did not advocate violence, Jesus did not advocate violence, MLK did not advocate violence. All those people that showed up for tea parties including the large one in DC would effect great change if they, in inflexible unity, all just said, no more. No more money, no more cooperation, no more support. We get real change or we stay out and go our own way.Hell they would have to clean out all the murderers, rapists, insane, and violent offenders in order to even get close to jailing the first wave alone. That ain’t going to happen.
In the light of Michael Moore’s new movie (haven’t seen it, but have read much about it) and the preponderence of articles like these, isn’t it time to come up with a new term that describes our economic system?
It’s clearly not capitalism…but not yet far enough along to be branded socialism. I know managed capitalism has been widely used, but it’s clearly not capitalism…sort of like how you can’t be a little bit pregnant.
I think Fascism is pretty close. Businesses are nominally privately owned but operations are largely dictated by government.
Methinks,
Agreed. Fascism works. Or, if we want to avoid the extreme negative connotations of that word, we could go with Corporatism – meaning a system of faux corporations who are in fact beholden to their political masters.
P.S. Good point, TW.
I think avoiding the word to avoid the negative connotations is a mistake. It’s the systems that led to the negative consequences and it’s important to remember we’ve been down this road before and to not forget where it leads.
My problem is that capitalism is becoming a dirty word because conventional wisdom seems to be that we are actually operating in a real capitalist system. That’s my real point about the Michael Moore movie….he’s saying our system is horribly flawed because capitalism doesn’t work, but our system isn’t really capitalism.
So what do we call it to distinguish it from capitalism? I’m not sure facism will go over well, given its association with Mussolini…I don’t think people can be convinced that we’re living like those Italians. And I don’t like corporatism because that seems to imply corporations are somehow inherently at fault/bad, as opposed to the overreach of government and the bastardized incentives they have set up.
I guess it depends on if you define “capitalism” as free enterprise or just free people. To me it has morphed to the latter in the eyes of both its adherents and detractors. A unit of capitalism is a unit of liberty. It is a transaction free from unwanted third party interference. Defined that way, it is a continuum, and populations can be more or less free (or capitalistic).
If government creates rents, they shall be sought.
Milton Friedman objected to strong government precisely (though not exclusively) because of the power industry is increased beyond what is natural when there is strong government. When politicians put power up for sale, it is the job of every business owner to buy it for their shareholders to better position the company.
It’s like earmarks. As long as pork spending is allowed, every politician must scramble to get as much of the largess as they can for their own constituents.
There you go, precisely why I did not condemn the CEOs of the power companies. They are doing precisely what government is encouraging them to do, and making it profitable for them to do so.
You mean they are only trying to function as best they can within the system imposed upon them?
The fact that utilities would quit the Chamber is stunning in light of the immnense efforts that the Chamber is going through to protect intellectual property (“green” technology) being developed by the U.S. Developing countries want this technology given to them by mandate but this will be incentive killing. Over half of U.S. exports are now intellectual property oriented and it would be much more if other countries did not have policies and strategies to transfer IP without paying for it (this is non-tariff trade blocking as well as theft).
This is the U.S. Chamber of Commerce webiste on the subject:
http://www.theglobalipcenter.com/index.php
I’ve said it many times before, and been misunderstood as an opponent of capitalism. More often than not, businessmen are not capitalists. More often than not, businesses thieve from citizens using the long arm of the law. More often than not, big businesses (not the adjective modifier please) succeed by regulation not by satisfying customer with goods.
There exists a capitalist critique of big business and the common, anti-capitalistic practices of businessmen.
When we fail to identify and publicly criticize anti-capitalistic practices by businessmen, we sow the seeds of socialism. The average citizen knows quite well that large business interests have an inordinate say in crafting regulations. The average guy knows why hugely wealthy finance companies got bailouts but he didn’t.
The average Joe knows that (1) he cannot stop large business interests from taking his money to further enrich billionaire corporations and millionaire corporate managers, (2) he can never muster the political power to repeal regulations that disadvantage him against larger enterprises, (3) all that is left for the average guy is more regulation.
He doesn’t see a battle between liberty and socialism. He sees a battle between regulations that hurt him and regulations that don’t hurt him.
Any objective observe has to admit he’s right. Lots of free trade advocates have ignored this problem. I did for many years, myself.
I don’t think it matters what we call it. What matters is what the press decides to call it. And if we keep going this way, we will be living like “those Italians”.
I’m just calling it “almost time to immigrate again”.
Just a thought, but if the rest of the world is going to use “capitalism” to described the current f’d up mess, why fight it? Just use that word to describe a massively manipulated economy and start using the term Free Market to describe a possible alternative.
What you do to distinguish it from the conventional wisdom view of capitalism is learn what capitalism really is and simply tell the truth about it.
Breathing is not a product of an evil mind or character, neither is the desire to make a profit, both are entirely natural.
I get where you’re coming from, Vidyohs, but I’ve never liked the term “Capitalism” anyway. It always seemed to me like more of a communist propaganda word than a useful description of what a free market system is all about. The word implies that “capital” is the objective. It isn’t. Capital is just a tool. Wealth is the objective, and wealth comes in many forms.
That’s a fight you aren’t going to win, Randy. The label has been attached and the label is capitalism. The left has always had the privilege of labeling and that label become the common used.
I personally have no problem with the label, capitalism. The label is not the problem, the ignorance about the process, the tool, is the problem. Besides I would submit the truth that the stigma attached to socialism and communism is for more severe and negative than that attached to capitalism.
The proof of that is the way the left has run from communism to socialism, to liberal, to democrat, and now to progressive. they run from the truth like scared rabbits when they look a man in the eye who knows what they are.